Sebastian Wilson's story is not just one of personal triumph; it's a powerful testament to the indomitable human spirit. As we unpack his journey from the early days of recognising educational hurdles to becoming a tech transformation titan, we unveil the layers of a man whose essence was shaped by a family of pioneers. His Windrush generation parents set a foundation of resilience and innovation, which he carries into his work.
Navigating the corporate terrain can be as treacherous as it is rewarding, especially when the labyrinth includes overcoming racial stereotypes and the art of networking. Our conversation with Sebastian reveals the peaks and valleys of his career, from his hands-on beginnings at PDG Consulting to his pivotal role at Ernst & Young, and how strategic relationship-building can vault one from a promising rookie to an industry keystone. His insights on mentorship and the transformative power of recognising potential remind us that our journey is enriched when we lift others as we climb.
But beyond the boardrooms and accolades, Sebastian's story is a mosaic of multifaceted achievements. His dedication as an angel investor and public speaker, along with his involvement with UK Black Tech and The Prince's Trust, paints a portrait of a man whose ambitions are matched only by his commitment to empowerment. Our discourse weaves through the tapestry of his endeavours, showing how one can stay grounded while soaring high, and how embracing a diverse range of passions can lead to a life of both success and significance.
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Black Rise is not just a podcast but an extension of our Business platform. We are on a mission to bridge the gap between businesses and the immense potential of Black talent. We provide a dynamic platform where businesses and individuals can connect, collaborate, and prosper with Black professionals, entrepreneurs, and black-owned companies. We strive to showcase the value, creativity, and innovation that Black talent brings to the table, fostering partnerships that drive economic growth, diversity, and mutual success.
The first 5,000 people on our waiting list will share 500,000 Black Rise coins. Register your interest to get early access.
Click here to find out more
Sebastian Wilson's story is not just one of personal triumph; it's a powerful testament to the indomitable human spirit. As we unpack his journey from the early days of recognising educational hurdles to becoming a tech transformation titan, we unveil the layers of a man whose essence was shaped by a family of pioneers. His Windrush generation parents set a foundation of resilience and innovation, which he carries into his work.
Navigating the corporate terrain can be as treacherous as it is rewarding, especially when the labyrinth includes overcoming racial stereotypes and the art of networking. Our conversation with Sebastian reveals the peaks and valleys of his career, from his hands-on beginnings at PDG Consulting to his pivotal role at Ernst & Young, and how strategic relationship-building can vault one from a promising rookie to an industry keystone. His insights on mentorship and the transformative power of recognising potential remind us that our journey is enriched when we lift others as we climb.
But beyond the boardrooms and accolades, Sebastian's story is a mosaic of multifaceted achievements. His dedication as an angel investor and public speaker, along with his involvement with UK Black Tech and The Prince's Trust, paints a portrait of a man whose ambitions are matched only by his commitment to empowerment. Our discourse weaves through the tapestry of his endeavours, showing how one can stay grounded while soaring high, and how embracing a diverse range of passions can lead to a life of both success and significance.
Experience Business Differently
Black Rise is not just a podcast but an extension of our Business platform. We are on a mission to bridge the gap between businesses and the immense potential of Black talent. We provide a dynamic platform where businesses and individuals can connect, collaborate, and prosper with Black professionals, entrepreneurs, and black-owned companies. We strive to showcase the value, creativity, and innovation that Black talent brings to the table, fostering partnerships that drive economic growth, diversity, and mutual success.
The first 5,000 people on our waiting list will share 500,000 Black Rise coins. Register your interest to get early access.
Click here to find out more
It just made me think oh so what do you do when you come back? Oh well, no, I'm going to go and travel, and after travel then I'm going to start applying for work and I'm going to go back to London. And it just started to open my eyes of the opportunities that they were starting to discuss and they had open to them that I didn't. And then I realized very quickly that my educational position was holding me back and I needed to address that immediately. So then I went back to college.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Black Rise podcast, your getaway to inspiring conversation with la creme de la creme of black talent who are leaders of seven figure and above businesses across a spectrum of industries. I'm your host, flavilla Fong-Gang, an award-winning serial entrepreneur, who will guide you on his journey. Black Rise isn't just a podcast. It's an extension of our business platform, allowing the business world to connect with skilled, talented and experienced Black talent. Our mission is to serve as a bridge, connecting businesses with vast opportunities that lie in working with Black professionals, entrepreneurs and enterprise. That lie in working with Black professionals, entrepreneurs and enterprise. We strive to showcase the value, creativity and innovation that Black talent brings to the table, fostering partnerships that drive economic growth, diversity and mutual success. Visit theblackrisecom to find out more. Hello everybody, welcome back to another episode on the black rice podcast, the only podcast where I interview the best of the best, like creme de la creme in the black ecosystem. We're doing some great things. The reason why we're here is because I always want you to learn from the most amazing individuals who have achieved success, but also take the time to really share their journey, their roadmap to success, so you can achieve it too and also connect with them.
Speaker 2:I think the beauty about Black Lives is the fact that you know we want to normalize, and not just me. A lot of people want to do the same thing normalize access to great Black talent, and today I'm very lucky to be joined by I want to pronounce his name in a French way, because it's always weird for me to pronounce French names with an English accent. So Sebastian Wilson is with me today. He's a seasoned leader in technology and transformation programs, boasting a distinguished two-decade career predominantly in digital services within financial services. I'm literally just giving not even 10% of his bio, so I'm really excited to start with him because he has done such a great, he has such a great career, and I like that. It is very direct to the point. That's something I like about him, as well as the point that's. I guess that's French approach. I don't know if it's your name. That is well who you are, sebastian, but pleasure to have you. How are you?
Speaker 1:I'm great. I'm Thank you for having me on the podcast. Really excited to be here.
Speaker 2:Yes, you know, as I like to start this podcast, I always like to start from the beginning, so I'm going to go. First chapter of your life is pretty much your childhood, and I'm curious in terms of where did you grow up or who have you that influenced you when you were younger, and what type of child were you really?
Speaker 1:Where did I grow up? So I grew up in Nottingham, which is in the East Midlands of this amazing country that we live in. My household was predominantly female, so it's my parents, my mother and father, but I have three elder sisters, so my childhood was spent predominantly around women. The youngest of the children, I was sport rotten with love. I always say I love that.
Speaker 2:You know, it's funny because my partner as well something. He's grown in a family where the moms are predominantly women, so he's never been intimidated by strong women around him and it kind of like yeah, it is what it is. Do you think that also influenced you in terms of your dynamic within the business?
Speaker 1:space A hundred percent. In fact I'd go as far as say not intimidated, but actually attracted to it because, uh, my mother and my sisters are all very, very strong personalities, always have been or will be, and that's my norm, that's my baseline. So I'm very used to being around females of strong of traits and my wider family all are as well. My parents are Windrush, the Windrush generation. They came over. My mum is a strong, amazing lady who I love dearly and it has definitely forged my relationships with many women.
Speaker 1:Just our Caribbean culture, our Jamaican culture, the culture that was in our home, how we were raised, what we ate, how the manners that we had, are still prevalent and ripple through my life and the childhood and upbringing that I'm giving my kids, my children, even now. So predominantly, everything is homed and started from my upbringing. My father was a plumber and my mother was a midwife. So my upbringing, my heroes of my parents and I worked with my father. He had his own, he was self-employed plumbing business. He was one of the first black plumbers in the East Midlands, in Nottingham, and my mother was the first of four midwives at the main hospital in Nottingham, nottingham City Hospital. So both of my parents are trailblazers. My elder sisters also held esteemed professional careers as well. But if I look to my parents being the first and doing what they were doing in the 60s and the 70s totally phenomenal in an environment which was hugely hostile to them- you can imagine.
Speaker 2:It's true you can't try to think about you know something being a plumber, you're going to people's house of perception that they have of of him and whatsoever, and serving for your mom and it's really hard thing that we take for granted nowadays that we think that is never going to be a problem. But they had to deal with it and sometimes we take for granted the. The challenges that people came before us have made it easy for us to deal with and I think there's something beautiful and also sad within this. But I'm sure that in your education, things that they were very kind of guiding you through, what are some of the, the values that they you grew up with well, I worked with my father.
Speaker 1:I trained as a plumber for a number of years, so as a Saturday job I'd go out with my father every Saturday and he would pay me. So I worked the art of diplomacy. I worked the art of patience, having to work for my father. I worked the art of negotiation. Being around other tradesmen I learned about money management skills. I learned about decorum. I worked out very quickly going into people's houses what was considered a well-kept house and a not so well-kept house. So these are all life skills that you know some people may get now, going and working in the corner shop or working in a restaurant.
Speaker 1:I was going into people's homes from a very young age and seeing how people live. I was going into people's homes from a very young age and and seeing how people's live, how people live, and it's I'm thinking about now, cause it would be like, you know, eighties, early nineties, and it was haunting at certain times that certain people lived in in in conditions I just couldn't understand. My father would look at me and he'd give me a look to say close your mouth. And my father would look at me and he'd give me a look to say close your mouth or there would be a smell and we'd be like what? And he would look at me and he'd just give me the look. My father was a very, very, a very stern, considered Caribbean gentleman from Jamaica, from Falmouth, and so I knew when he looked at me I had to keep my mouth shut, give up my eyes closed well, not cloud, but just not show the, the vision of despair that was ranging in front of me, inside me, of what I was seeing in front of me.
Speaker 1:And then, on the flip side, my mother was totally different. She I used to go see my mother at work when she was managing labor suite in city hospital and my mum was just like mom was just the boss. Everybody respected my mom. I saw power. So I saw power in two different ways and I saw approach. I saw my mother, you know, running labor suites and running that part of city hospital for all the ladies that were in labor at the time and all of the nurses going to my mom. I saw that and so that was more of a public setting. And then, in a private setting, I saw my father being the owner of his time and space, being going through self-employed and the respect that he commanded when we used to go around his peers and counterparts and we used to go to the afro-caribbean center afterwards, or we used to go to will bond for parts for boilers and stuff. I saw it so for from a very early age I saw what you could do for yourself and what power meant to other people.
Speaker 2:I love that. I think it's interesting as well that do you think that those two, your parents, two journeys also help you be not only grateful but also ambitious about what you wanted to achieve for?
Speaker 1:yourself, definitely my, my father. I'm sorry appearance, but my father was very, very strategic in the choices that he made for me. My sister's names are not West Indian names. My name should have been James after my grandfather, and my father says no, in fact no, if I get this right. My mother said no, I like the name Sebastian, but all of us have more Western names because my father was very aware. My have more western names because my father was very aware.
Speaker 1:My father was one of the active early panthers in the 60s and at one stage we were at michael x. Come to our house. My mother wasn't very happy. Yes, so my, my father was very aware from a very early age the power of your name, the power of the room that you could be in. He was very. He moved us from a not too good area in Nottingham to where we eventually grew up. My father was involved in property. My father also was one of the leaders at the Pan-African school in Nottingham and would give lectures to other children which when that was prevalent in the seventies. So very fortunate to have expansive, well-read. So very fortunate to have expansive, well-read, intelligent, forward-thinking parents that ensured that we went to the best schools possible Not private, but the best state schools possible and they were always looking at us and looking at the company that we kept and instilled massive amounts of confidence, guidance, culture, entrepreneurial spirit and just a forward-thinking vision of what I can achieve from a very early age.
Speaker 2:That helps a lot. That helps you find the possibilities that you can achieve for yourself. It's so interesting. Do you know what's funny? I'm French-born and when I hear people talk about the privilege of going to private school and I never understood that, because everybody in France, you all, go to public school, but that just showcased sometime from an early age I can create disparities just because of what you have access to and how much money you have. But it's good to know that it was also public school that you can go to. That still give you a great education and and look where you are now. Maybe one question around the best lessons that you've learned from your parents or even your siblings, from my father an engineering spirit and, well, practically engineering.
Speaker 1:So I went on to university to do computing business. But if I go all the way back to the lessons from my father, it was patience and knowing how to make things, knowing how to put things together. I would probably go to dumb it down as like flat pack furniture, but just to know how to build things, how things and processes, how they need to be built up. That comes very much from my father and the time that I spent with him. So that's one thing and that's really important. And the the first example he gave me.
Speaker 1:He made me take her, take out the car aerial many, many years ago and I just took it out, put everything on the ground, and he looked at me and he says, ok, so how are you going to put that back together? Because you've not laid the parts out, the way in which you've dismantled them. That must be a lesson he told me by now six. So again, it's building blocks and structure and that runs all the way through now to where I am now. People say I'm very, very organized and very strategic and it all comes from having that vision of how things actually come together From my mother. Definitely my mother is the people person, the people of people person. My mother was a networker when there was no such thing as networking. If my mother came to London now and got the train back home, she'd probably have three phone numbers by the time she got off the train.
Speaker 2:Is that like my mom?
Speaker 1:Absolutely amazing. It would often happen that she would go meet up with people. Oh, who is this person? Oh, I met her on the train when I was coming back from London and she did this and they got talking about raw adulting and whatever, whatever it was. So my mother taught me the art of being open to people, speaking to people, being yourself, to celebrate, to laugh, to be happy, to love and embrace your culture, which is our culture, not all culture. My sisters all have shown me so. Elysia showed me perseverance and strength and determination, and Tabitha has shown me compassion, patience and a huge amount of resilience of late. So I'm just really fortunate to have really shining examples. I mean, don't get me wrong, my sisters all three of them used to sit on top of me and bully the heck out of me, but that's the right passage of being, as my father said, the one boy, you're the one boy.
Speaker 1:So I was the one boy, so I got it. So, yeah, yeah, I'm looking back. I'm actually smiling as I'm talking about this, because there were some really fun memories of my my childhood, and they're great they're great.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm just listening to you. I feel like I want to be part of and see what it is like to be in the family. Since that you.
Speaker 1:Oh, my house is crazy. It was crazy. Yeah, it was brilliant, it was crazy. It was busy as well. It was busy. My father always had his pan-african crew that would come over and my father was nicknamed the mastermind. They'll have all these meetings in the back and my sister's friends because my sisters are like 13 years older than me, my two older sisters, so they would have their friends and they were driving and then my myself and my youngest sister closest to me, tabitha, were only two years apart. So we were all going through different things at different stages, but it was a very busy, open household and it was great and it's something that I'm actually bringing to my house. I always tell people if you're walking past the house you haven't got to. You know, it's not going to be a big thing, just knock on, you know knock on and just be, because that's what I grew up in and it's good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like to window and print door. You see that in in certain culture in south america where people just love to have people around, but it's not very common in in western world.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, people, people will text you to arrange a meeting, to send a calendar. I'm like, pick up the phone, man, just you know, if you want to wrap, let's talk. You know, if you don't, you don't, or you call somebody, that they text you back. Did you call me? Well, yes, I called you. You call me back. That's why I called you anyway, craziness I love that.
Speaker 2:No, I do think that your, your family story and your history could be could be great documentary, could be a great movie. I'm seeing how this is going. It sounds really pain, the pain and the therapy of my childhood now you are at the point where you need to make choices about your, your education and your, your choice in life. What did you study? What did you choose?
Speaker 1:to study. As I said before, my parents did the best in ensuring that I went to the best schools. We sorry, we went to the best schools in nottingham, so we went. I went to a school in nottingham and I'm not going to mention it because can I just say you don't have a nottingham.
Speaker 2:I don't know what, I'm not asking, but you I do.
Speaker 1:So if I start talking about bus and bath, then my words, my words, and it's not, and it's not at all anything I'm trying to hide, I. And when I go home, when I go home regularly, I go home a lot. When I'm around my nuts boys and we start talking, it just comes out. But then I come back down here and I pick up my eyes and tease. But it's not something I consciously do. But yes, if we start talking about bus and bath, then it'll start to come out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my ex was the same as well. It was half Scottish, half Nigerian and you come back from Scotland, I look. I was like I literally do not understand what you're saying right now, because it's been two weeks back home and he it came back.
Speaker 1:Exactly what you say it's beautiful, yeah, yes, it's definitely around the surroundings, but, um, schooling was yeah. So I went to a really good classic school and it was a challenge. So I was um. I didn't do very well at that school. In essence, I left that school with a number of failed GCSEs and I had to go to college and re-sit.
Speaker 2:Can you tell us why?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was very much celebrated for my sports achievements. At the time I was running for English schools and I was running for a sports club called Nottingham Athletics Club, so it was great to have Sebastian go and represent the school but at the same time, being the one of only very few black people in the school and one of only two in the whole year, I just found myself or in the wrong place at the wrong time, or a lot of places or a lot of scenarios were suddenly revolving around me. I would never say I was an angel at school. I wasn't. I wasn't trouble either.
Speaker 1:Um, the school were very good to celebrate my achievements, but not to help me with my well, with, with with the problems that you know came to me racism, challenges, teachers, perception but at the same time, my sister was at the same school and she absolutely flew and my sister was a prefect and there were high hopes for me when I got there. So I said I'm I'm very, very big on accountability I have. I can definitely look up and say, yes, I didn't put the effort in at school every day like I should have done, which is what you should do when you're a child, because what else is there to do? You go to school.
Speaker 2:There's nothing really else to do you know, there's something, sebastian, it's so interesting that you say that, because people always think that because you're black, you experience the same time, the same type of challenges from a very young age. And it's interesting because for me, my early challenges, you know, being a black girl, was more around objectification rather than just like pure racism and stuff like that. Do you want to give an example? Friendship can be very direct. So comments about my butt, so I always had a big butt, right.
Speaker 2:So the comment that's made about my physique and whatsoever, and when you go into the workplace, again people make the assumption about you, leave the comments about your physical appearance. There's always been that objectification event. And I go to the entrepreneur world where you know your network and the hands don't go in the right places and stuff like that. So this is something that I've dealt more with, uh, than just racism for, say as it's, and it's interesting, right, because again, like here's where I was, I was, I'm, I'm five, three, but I was playing basketball, so a natural athletic physique which is quite, you know, quite visible. So those comments I dealt with from a very young age and, you know, you kind of find ways to deal with it and now obviously I'm in a different place. But it's really hard when you're young. You have to deal with that.
Speaker 1:Yes, I suppose so, and I don't think my school was very open to finding different barometers for different people. It was very much you are a student and you are this way and you're in this mold, and the majority of that mold would have been my you know, my white counterparts, and so I don't think the school understood or wanted to really address racism. If I think about it, my best friend at the time, his father, died's a white guy and they didn't do very well at that. So it wouldn't just be this strand of inclusive, inclusivity and diversity. It was also looking at other problems that students had along the way, and this school was very focused on sticking as close to the catholic curriculum as possible, being very public and being seen as that. But internally there were there were a lot of things that weren't right. So, yes, the school was a struggle.
Speaker 2:School, school was a struggle even though what you are now I mean people don't listen to this podcast and I haven't seen you. You, you would be an, a perfect green lantern superhero. You have that physique and that. I don't know if you know who green lantern is, but I know who Green. Lantern is.
Speaker 1:I'd probably, I'd probably say a bit more of an off Green Lantern but yeah thank you very much.
Speaker 1:No, no, people don't. People don't know, because people don't ask about your school. I mean, once you get to a certain level professionally wise, people don't really want to go back as far as school. They kind of focus on university upwards and then after a university they kind of focus on your career forward. So sit there and talk about origins and talk about, you know, the 1980s and 90s in nottingham. Um, people aren't really that too fussed about it because they focus on where you are today and what you are celebrating today and they don't really focus as much on your journey. And the journey is what's got me here.
Speaker 1:Because if I hadn't have gone through that scenario, gone to that school, learn resilience, learn all the things that have really pushed me left, center, up and down, I wouldn't be here talking to you. I just wouldn't be because I I very much know my alternative. I said I left the school with no GCSEs Well, none above a C. I had to retake and Nottingham was great for factories. So I was working in factories. I was working in boots, packing shelves.
Speaker 1:I was a forklift truck driver. I was working in imperial tobacco. Before university I was putting pepperoni on pizzas. I was a cleaner, I did everything possible to earn money and it was all basic manual labor. So I worked in a lot of factories, which they were prevalent all over Nottingham before 1995, and that was the way it was. And so if I hadn't have gone through these really hard lessons, I wouldn't have thought, right, I need to go back to college to retrain, I need to get out of this city, I need to go to university, that's the way out. And I wouldn't have continued on to where I am now.
Speaker 2:Definitely. And what was then, that ha-ha moment that made you realize let me go back to college, let me study, and let me take a different path to where things are going right now.
Speaker 1:Oh gosh, it was night and day. I had I'm smiling. This is really good, it's good, it's good to go back, actually. So I had a. I thought I was the king of the castle. I had a Renault 5, tunson Grey Turbo. I have to describe this to you because it's got to get out of my brain. I had like a Zeus Hyphonix 15-inch sub six by nine beakers on the shelf. What was it? A pioneer snatch plate. Anyway, I had the system of systems bombing around Nottingham, me and my boys, and I found myself hanging around with some university students and I would sit and talk with them and then I would say oh, what are?
Speaker 1:you guys doing for summer. And it was like, oh, I'm going off traveling, I'm going here, I'm going there, and they're all going somewhere, they're all leaving the city, they're all going somewhere, they're all leaving the city, they're all doing something else. And I was like, well, I'm not doing anything because I'm just here, just thinking that I've got it on lock and I've smashed it because I've got a nice whip, and you know, people want to roll with me. And it just made me think, oh so what do you do when you come back? Oh well, no, I'm going to go and travel and after travel, then I'm going to start applying for work and I'm going to go back to London. And it just started to open my eyes up, the opportunities that they were starting to discuss and they had open to them that I didn't. And then I realized very quickly that my educational position was holding me back and I needed to address that immediately. So then I went back to college. It was just really that simple that I was looking at the options other people had that I didn't, and I was looking forward, thinking, okay, I'm working in these factories getting cash in hand on a Friday. This is not scalable. I don't work, I don't get paid, I can't give my work to anybody, I can't go anywhere. I clock in, I clock out.
Speaker 1:I'm looking at these guys, middle-class uni students, chilling all day, rolling out their bed for lectures. They're just like, yeah, I want to get a 2.1, and then I'm off to do this. Oh, there's an Arthur Anderson program I'm going to go on back in those days or there's an essential program, or there is a cap gemini program, there's a ubs graduate program, or there's the milk round. What's the milk round? Oh, there's this, and you know you can apply to it if you get this level of degree. Oh, wow, okay. And then going back, and so what did you get the? Well, I did this at college and I got these grades at college. And then you just start to walk back and then go okay, I'm at this level. These guys are three years ahead of me already. I need to go and retrain. And that was it, night and day yeah, do you know?
Speaker 2:it's important. What I would like to emphasize about that moment is that your circle also really and depending where you are in that circle can really influence you. And you had your circle of friends who were in a different position, but they made you realize that you can achieve so much more. And taking that decision that you can have a different life is beautiful. I remember hearing that and I say all the time you have one death, but you have many lives and you can always change it around and take a different path, and that's what you did. So you went back to college. Here you are back three years later. Three years later, but three years behind compared to your friends, but it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I went to university as a mature student at 23. I got put in the old people's university block. It was hilarious. Yes, I was considered a mature student 23?.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's the way it was at Brunel University. There was the normal block with the 18-year-olds and then there was my block and everybody was older. So, yep, I went back to uni. So what happened was I think I did a BTEC, first computing business, and then I did something at Nottingham University to get some UCAS credit and I scraped into computing and business at bruno university, left nottingham, came down to london, drove myself. I was just so ready. My family were not very happy at the time. They're like um, so when we take to university I says, now I'm gonna do it myself. I just, I just packed my 309 gi with with with my turntables, records, a few books and I was gone. I, I was, I was gone, so drove myself down to to uxbridge and I started uni in 97 wow, and what made you choose computing?
Speaker 1:my brother-in-law was, uh, into computing and then I was just looking forward, thinking, okay, what's scalable? What do I enjoy? Again going back to my father's lessons, I enjoy putting things together, I enjoy breaking them down and I like tech. So, whether it was hi-fis, whether it was anything electrical, I just liked, and the underpinning of that is electronics. The underpinning of that was math. So you build it back up and it's like right, okay.
Speaker 2:I want to be in computing and so how was that experience then? You know it would make me laugh 23 and consider mature student, but was it good experience? And oh, it's amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, absolutely amazing. University, you know, I mean it's just great to go away from home, work out who you actually are. I had a lot of questions about myself, who I am, who I want to be, what's possible. I'd already seen it because I was hanging around with university people, um, before I'd left Nottingham. But the experience of just growing up on your own and betting on yourself at a relatively young age is is really important.
Speaker 1:A lot of people don't go to university. I couldn't totally understand why there is a massive devalue on the merit of a degree. However, the experience, I mean going to going to central london, um, on a daily. I mean I used to come down to london all the time because I used to record shop, so I was always in soho and deal real when, black market and lots of the stops in soho, but how I live it, going down to red records in brixton and stuff. But, however, living here in london was totally different and amazing. It was absolutely amazing. I loved the scene, I loved the clubs, I loved everything new. I loved the fact that I could make a choice on what I wanted to do. I wasn't going back home to be told what I had to do by my parents, rightly so, yeah.
Speaker 2:Do you know? It's so funny because I think about and I haven't I haven't said that to many people but if I could just spend my life studying, I would just love. I love studying. I've always been obsessed, voracious, really, yeah, and to this day I'm a masterclass. Anything I can just. I probably spend about between probably about three to 20K on just learning new things. I just love it. I just find that there's so much happiness in learning new things. People don't realize that, whatever it is, even just reading a book or listening to a podcast, you know, I just love just and this is why, for me, this is my little pleasure of listening to having a question with a great intelligent mind in the black space to talk about their journey, because I'm just in, this is joy for me and I love that You've had quite a formidable journey yourself, so let's not play that down either.
Speaker 2:Oh, I do not Trust me. I'm French. I've never put myself down that one. Trust me, I'm French, I've never put myself down that one. Sure, I would say to you, when I first came to London, I felt that, as a Black person, I could really make it. I have that feeling because, you know, I didn't realize that, the invisible bias I was dealing with. But when I arrived in London I was like wow, I think I can really make it here.
Speaker 2:And it was that moment. You know know when you get those moments like, oh, I like this space, it's great, and you sorry, whereabouts were you? In scotland and france scotland.
Speaker 2:Oh so, my partner is was from scotland, but I grew up in in paris when we think, oh, paris, okay and you didn't think, you didn't, yeah, you didn't think that you could make it in paris yeah, because, you know, I grew up in the ghetto of Paris, so the part that you don't see when you arrive, so it's very much, you know, multicultural, and you don't see anybody on TV who is Black, unless you're looking at music or sports. And again, so many people who are in a position of power, they're not there, you don't see them. So always my only inspiration was my mother, you know, and she really always said to us like your first husband is education. So we kind of put that I'm glad I married him because it took me a long way with it, but I don't think I have. You know, think about like you drive in London, just like visual things in terms of what you see people in suits, remember, you're wearing a suit and go to work at Zara, but just that perception of, wow, okay, I'm seeing different things, of different people in position of power, or just you go to university and you have women wearing their hijab or you can be who you truly be, and I think that sense of london and again, that's london, that's not necessarily the uk, it's that little island that gives you that sense of you know, if you're really driven, you can make it, and that's that's what I love about this, this city.
Speaker 1:I mean for me I felt definitely mixed around, that I felt definitely a huge jump from Nottingham in representation of our brothers and sisters in all walks of life. For sure, when I jumped into the city which I know we'll talk about soon I didn't see, I saw that representation at different levels. So at one sense I was surrounded well, we are surrounded by more black people in London from the different levels of their diaspora. But then when we got into different rooms I was like, oh okay, come on, it's kind of more or less the same. So if a gift and a curse on, I would obviously always rather see more of us because I feel comfortable.
Speaker 2:But yes, I know, and we're going to talk about all the things that you've done to get to not only just have a successful career, but also help everybody else. So now you're in London, did you finish studying and you celebrated what was your first job.
Speaker 1:Oh, my first job. So after finishing at Brunel, my first job was working for a company called PDG Consulting, which stands for Pretty Damn Good Consulting.
Speaker 2:Are you?
Speaker 1:serious, I'm very serious, yes, I was. So what I did for my university degree? I did a sandwich course, so I had a placement and my placement I managed successfully. Again, through networking and my sister who was working at the time, she managed to get me a placement at Reuters. So I was working at Reuters, the news agency, but I was working in the tech team. So I had two really good placements at Reuters and then after that I got a job as an Oracle financials database administrator and I did that for a number of years.
Speaker 1:I was living in where did I live? Ryslip Gardens, and I was traveling. Oh my gosh, I was traveling to Thatcham, which is just past Reading, every day. It's like 52 miles each way. Sometimes I think the car light brought itself home, but I was doing that every day and I was then started to be put on placement because it was a consultancy. It was an oracle consultancy as oracle reseller, and so I started to work more in the city and doing less traveling. So I was working for Hermes pension management and temper beds and I just go to their offices and work because they had they had the contract with PDG and I was obviously working for PDG, so that was good, pushing me into environments and around people I've never been around before. So, yeah, well, very early on in my career I was consulting and I was going out being a consultant for the company I was working for.
Speaker 2:As we continue this engaging conversation, remember that Black Rise is more than just a podcast. We're a dynamic platform where businesses can connect, collaborate and prosper with Black professionals, entrepreneurs and Black-owned companies. Our commitment to diversity, inclusion and empowerment reshapes industries and builds a future where Black excellence thrives globally. So don't forget to subscribe and give us a five-star review on iTunes. I think one thing I love about and this is kind of the pattern that comes back a lot of successful black leaders is that being comfortable, the and you know the the unknown, and normalizing that. I think this is something that is beautiful and I would say that nothing happens and people know that nothing happens if you say, if you, if you stay on your sofa, you have to go out there in the unknown and discover and learn new things, and that's something that your job requires you to do. But at which point of your career did you feel that you now say, aha, I know exactly what I want to do and I'm going to go for it.
Speaker 1:Gosh, I don't think I'm even there yet. But just going back to that point, I would not say that I conquered my confidence and that I could walk into being totally fine. I just found it really exciting. I just found london so exciting. I found the partying so exciting. I found the networking after work and the drinks on the thursday in the city exciting. I found the people that I was working with exciting. So it was all new and I just embraced it.
Speaker 1:So I would, would and can still continually run headfirst into something which is new, because I think that's what life should be about. It should be what did you do new today? How did you push yourself? And that's always been a part of me. The networking that I do now and the way in which we've met has been totally through organically me putting myself in positions and rooms with other people just because I like to grow. Just like you, I am a continuous learner. I think that's one of the traits I see in a lot of my peers. We're all continuous learners, whatever it's, whatever it's a podcast, as you said, masterclass we're all continual learners.
Speaker 1:But for me, I realized I wanted to be a DBA because it was a great day rate. It was a great contracted day rate and I liked the tech elements of it. So I started to do that and I continued being a DBA and then, once I'd left PDG Consulting, I went on to Ernst Young as a DBA. I worked for Ernst Young for again network. I go back to the person that I was doing my my placement with in my career and he said I've got a job at UBS sorry, at Ernst Young, you should come and interview. And it was my first contract and so I went for it and it was great. So I was a contractor at Ernst Young in Waterloo and I was there for four years. That was brilliant. And then I moved from ub you know ernst and young to ubs bastian, before you go to the next step.
Speaker 2:People are listening to this and say, okay, I'm aspiring maybe to to work with ey. What do you think that you you did in your character and your presentation that made you? Obviously doing the job is important and I think the you know the credentials for that, but what else do you think that you did to really showcase that you are EY material?
Speaker 1:A good question. I think I actually had already done it when I was a student, because it was my ex-manager at Reuters that then moved to Ernst Young and he called me and said there's a role here if you want it. So I think, if I look back two or three years beforehand, I presented myself in such a sense that somebody felt that they could trust me when they were building their new team of DBAs to come and work with them. So I was hungry, I was curious, I was funny, I was diligent, I was very good at timekeeping, I was funny, I was diligent, I was very good at timekeeping, and I think I was all the things that I think a student should be, not even just a student of university, but a student of life. And that projected forward. So that projected forward to when the phone rang again Two years later. They were like, oh, again and again, go back to networking.
Speaker 1:I continued to stay in touch with the people that I'd met along the way. So, though I wasn't working for Reuters, I spoke to them and I'd go out and go out and have drinks with them, and then the opportunity came up and they thought, sebastian, you're great for this. And I was like cool, I'm in. So it always, it always pays to just be there. But to be there, you have to be there and you have to stay there. And and you? I wouldn't say I was malleable, I wouldn't say I was malleable, I wouldn't say I was trying to be somebody else. I just continue to inhibit and show the traits that I have just kept personal to myself, which is to be curious, to be open and to keep moving forward, and it's just, it's always continued to work in my career.
Speaker 2:I love that, Do you know? I think one thing that you just said that people often really underestimate is that networking. You don't network for something that you need right now. You network to build relationship, but relationship is over time. You never know at what point that relationship will be, will become influential in your next career move. But again, what you do now is not for tomorrow, is for what you're going in need in two years.
Speaker 2:You know I'll tell you something that, for example, right now for Black Rise, I'm going through that process of fundraising but all that I've managed to, as my angel investors are people that know me. You know, we know how difficult it is for female black people to get investment. But that relationship of me building my personal brand, being visible to credentials, dah, dah, dah and so on, make it easy for someone to say, yes, now. But if I didn't do it now and I come from out of nowhere, nobody's heard of me how would that happen? Right, and I think that's a beautiful thing. That part of the key thing of developing the soft skills is that you have to be a great.
Speaker 2:You know people building, relationship building throughout your networking journey, and that's something that is so, so key. A lot of this has happened to my life because I knew somebody you know, Sebastian. Yeah, do you know what I mean? And it's one of the disadvantages that we have often as black people, because if we're not born in money, you know we don't have. You know our uncle, who is connected to the president, who can do that. We have to start and we have to do even more networking than others do. I don't know how you feel about that, but that's my, my vision of things yeah, I agree, I didn't.
Speaker 1:I totally underestimated the power of it. I networked with people. Network with people because I just like them, so it wasn't I didn't really network with a purpose. I just networked because, oh, I get on with he's cool, or that person's really open to having a conversation. That has always been me and, primarily, that always is still me. However, it is also good to know with a purpose. If you want to go into property or you want to go into finance or you want to go into sports, it is good to go find the people that are doing the most in that area, that are as successful as possible, and to go and meet them, because their advice, having trodden the road that you are about to go down, can save you a lot of time, and that's one of well, we can never get our time back. So if you can save it, you should save it, but if you can save it and build great relationships along the way, it's a win-win for 100%.
Speaker 2:Don't waste my time, don't waste the money.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, you do have to get back money um, I I've sadly lost money, but um, you can't get back the time.
Speaker 2:The time goes yes, because obviously we're still going for your career journey, but at which point did you start your journey into property investment?
Speaker 1:uh, let me think now around that time at ubs. So I, um, I again just had some great I would say I had some great people around me. It was a great circle of people and they're like what are you doing with your money? And I was like bar every Thursday night and buying a new suit and uh went and bought my Saab. Um, I was like bought flats. They were like you should be buying property. And I was like, yeah, okay, okay, okay, where do you know, in this country? I'm like, well, nottingham. And they're like, well, why don't you buy home? Why buy a home? You know you can get 100 mortgages. This is 2004. And so I did that. And I was like, oh gosh, this is cool, but this property management lock is not for me. And so I did it for a while. Then I gave it to a company and I just can tack.
Speaker 1:I continued, I came back again, bought another property, bought another one, another one, and just continued to grow the portfolio and I just wish I was buying. I'd have bought someone so much more property. I just wish I should have bought more. I'd never have known. You know, as um, I've not touched those properties for a number of years and then it was only like 2021. I looked, I was like, oh, what's the, what's the value of these and what's the equity, and starting to really understand the market. So I got into property alongside banking, but I didn't take it seriously. It was just a vehicle of where I should invest, because I was more or less following people that were considerably ahead of me and I knew a lot more, and they were just giving me some really good advice and I just followed it and I and I took it. So it's a bit of a fluke but it's good.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's good that you were in a network that gets you to think about property as a form of investment, because, again, the statistics are really bad. Within the black ecosystem, only 20 percent of black people are property owner, and that's something that they're really keen on. On changing that as well, definitely if, if, well, definitely.
Speaker 1:If you take the time and really look into this, there's a lot more help now than there probably ever was. Obviously, property prices are considerably more and 4.5 times your salary is possibly not enough to buy a property. However, it might be enough to buy an investment property, or it might be enough to look at what the government's doing, or you can get lifetime. Isa said there's a lot of different things, that which one can do to get on the ladder yes, and that also requires, just as you say yourself, searching and being curious.
Speaker 1:There's always, there's always a way and the wealth of knowledge for every subject available to everybody. When you're listening to, you know lee anderson or property by kazzy, or you're looking at um I start investments. Or you know lee anderson or property by kazi, or you're looking at um investments. Or you know, earn your leisure. There's just so many resources now for whatever you want to do, where you can at least go and get a really good basis of an education before you start to spend any of your personal money. So anybody wanted to get involved in property. It's possible.
Speaker 2:It's definitely possible there's one thing that you say. At some point you say that I'm always around people who are ahead of me. Oh, definitely, yeah, people listen to this. Okay, that's brilliant, but how do I get to those people are always ahead of me. Because those people are ahead of you will give you their advice and against having put something in your ears that lead you to make a decision that now impact you know, your, your health and so much. So why is that important that? How do you get those people near you?
Speaker 1:I've found that if you're sincere and you're truthful and you approach somebody with humility and humbleness and and you are about your word people generally will help you and you don't waste people's time, they will help you. So when I look at the people in the tech space angel investing that are ahead of me, I know I can reach out to my brother andy I am um if I want to double down on an investment opportunity in property, I know I can speak to lee anderson if I want to go and speak to somebody in finance. I mean, I'm not trying to name, keep name dropping it, but there's. I'm very fortunate enough that people look at me and go we see, we see you, sebastian, we you, and we know that you're not, you're not going to waste our time and you're not gonna waste my time. And then internal, in addition to that, I help people that are coming through. So I do a lot of mentoring of people that are new to the city.
Speaker 1:Having spent 20 years two decades there and been through the raft of Mancos, staircos, executive committee meetings, board meetings and climbing my career within the multitude of different investment banks, I want to help people navigate that space because there is a way to navigate the city to get the most out of it, and it's not just going to the CEO. So people see me and I see people and I'm very humbled to go out and reach out to people and say I really like what you're doing, it'd be really great to you know, take you out, you know. Or if I see somebody at a networking event, I just walk up to them and say, oh my gosh, I've been consuming your content. I think it's great. I like this, this and this and this. Would you be able to answer this and this question? And I don't plan it, but I just find that I'm probably consuming so much.
Speaker 1:Again, going back to the life learning piece, my spotify I hardly listen to music. Considering how much I used to dj, I hardly listen to music and it's just podcast after podcast alex, harmoni, stanford lectures, uh, property podcasts, it's. It's just consuming knowledge all the time and by doing that it just makes my viewpoint more expansive. So when I do meet some of these people, I have something to say and they've just been really humble enough to turn around and say hey, sebastian, let's roll, and it's just grown.
Speaker 2:I think what you say is so important that you come into this conversation not necessarily as equal, but with enough background to look like you're not just there begging for support, but you also can challenge them a little bit, and I think that's everybody wants to have an interesting conversation. For me, I love that People go okay, that's interesting. You've come up with some very good questions. That's something that is really lovely. And I think that you say and I want to go back into this what do you believe is a game? I always say business is a chess game, but you need to understand the rules to play them right. If you had to give the rules of this chess game that we are in, what would be those? What would that be?
Speaker 1:oh okay. So if we was looking at chess and I'm looking at a chess board and everybody wants to be the, I want to get to the king yes of the queen or the queen, it is playing your position and if you're a rook, you know sometimes you get sacrificed and sometimes you do hit things head on and sometimes you are jumped over by other players on the game and some people do have a massive diagonal swing or move and take you from the legs. It really is. It's a really good analogy. But a lot of it is patience. A lot of it is diligent work, ethic and patience and it's analysis and analyzing what you've done, what worked and what didn't work and you know what?
Speaker 2:that's what sometimes amuses me so much about social media, because social media will make you feel that somebody, once somebody, said to me oh, you're so lucky. I'm like huh. At which point did luck come in my life?
Speaker 1:social media will have us believing a lot of things, and some of those things we should believe and some of those things we shouldn't however it's the barometer and the people that you have around you which keep you really real, and if your barometer is surrounded by people that don't keep you real, you'll find yourself in some sticky situations personally and professionally. So I really believe, looking back at that chess board, you have to play the game, but also you have to really realize that you're actually on the board and you have a position to play and you can get to the king and queen and you can maneuver it and you can bring the whole board with you. I just see so many of my younger counterparts and even my older ones that are just aiming to go. I mean also sorry, going back, it's really important to play number two and number three, and I think a lot of people don't talk about this. I am a very good at time.
Speaker 1:Number two I'm totally not fussed about the limelight. Yes, I would like to be picked out of a queue every now and then and jump to VIP. Who doesn't? However, it's just really important to be in the circle and well, to orchestrate and affirm your position as somebody who's a supporter and somebody who's going to basically push the conversation forward, as opposed to a lot of people that just want to come in and be the big I am and be the man. It's. It's just, it's just not something that, um, I feel. See, I find a value. Yes, and you know, we, we both know the line. If you're the smartest person in the room, which I'm generally not, you're in the wrong room.
Speaker 1:If you're the loudest person in the room, in the wrong room so you know you need to get in rooms where people are way ahead of you, yeah.
Speaker 1:I love that, and I've always found that the leaders of this world, it's the middle managers, that block you. But the leaders of this world will generally really help you. They really will be, and as long as they see something in you that either they see in themselves or they're open to different elements of your life, they'll help you. But it's the others my gosh, you know. The middle managers will just basically block you because they're affirming their position and sometimes it's really counterintuitive to progress Absolutely. So you just have to step over them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know, as you say as well. You know, you learn that. You know when you were still a young, a young man, that sometimes it's best to leave. If you think that there's no, there's no way to move forward and somebody is going to be blocking, you go somewhere else. And I think that you said it was super important about second and third.
Speaker 2:Third place and when we opened, you know, for my nonprofit, the third chapter in France, and we had a fantastic conversation with a, with a fantastic entrepreneur who has an ecosystem with 50 businesses and he says his rule of success is to always be number two, so he's never the CEO and he realized that, you know, I'm not here for ego and I don't need to. I know who I am, I know what I need to prove, you know what I've achieved and for me, being the CEO does not interest me, but the only way for me to be able to build this fantastic ecosystem where I continue to serve my clients across the channel was to I need to be number two and a great number two, and put a great number it's amazing, amazing.
Speaker 1:That's like, yeah, it's good to hear, it's good to hear a lot of people don't talk about that. So, yeah, it's really refreshing to hear that it's true.
Speaker 2:Coming back to your career, what are some have been some of the highlights of your success I mean, you've worked with some of the biggest companies in the world and what has been some of the yes me that you've been really proud of achieving?
Speaker 1:sure, my gosh, if I go back to tech, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna give an acronym. You know, being one of the first investment banks at the time to run like massive oracle rack clusters, which no one did, which won't mean anything to anyone, but it was big to us. Being at um car phone dixon and launching uh, award-winning, award-winning apps for the high street, which changed the high streets and still has to this day. Being a hsbc, I'm working on probably one of the biggest transformation programs in history for value of like 1.4 billion um. So championing the, the need for black senior representation in all of the roles that I've done and been given and helped other brothers and sisters really achieve their success through that.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I've got many different examples doing my mba for my I'm sorry, my mini mba for Birkbeck University yeah, just meeting some amazing people along the way which continually shaped my, my viewpoint, yes, of how, how we could move forward, how I should move forward. So, um, yeah, investment banking is. It's a great playing field. You get lots of exposure. It's cutthroat. There will never be an environment that I'll work in like that. Um, however, if you can sustain yourself in the heat, it's very rewarding. It's very rewarding professionally, it's very rewarding personally and it does push you forward so what should be?
Speaker 2:why should somebody listen to this podcast? Should prepare themselves for if you decide to take that journey it's cutthroat.
Speaker 1:it it's cutthroat.
Speaker 2:I know, but you say that go deep. What does that really mean?
Speaker 1:What does that really mean? Okay, fine, people are out for themselves, people are working for some people, sorry, some people are out for themselves, some people are out for the cause. Now, if the cause aligns with what you can get for yourself, then great. If that doesn't, you know, you have to be aware there are lots of changes, people moving in and out of roles on a whim, there are lots of cuts. You know, if you think of Goldman Sachs, the bottom 5% every year are let go.
Speaker 1:So everybody's pushing every year to deliver more with less, less resource, less money, less time. There are regulatory requirements which come in and scupper every single change, the bank plan every single year. However, the exposure is great, the environment's great and you are working with some of the best people out there. So it really does channel you to want to do more because you're surrounded where people are doing more. The hours are absolutely crush, crushing. But, um, I would tell everybody to be in that environment for a certain part of their career, Because I think it's a value. Is it worth it? Yeah, if I hadn't done that, I wouldn't be here talking to you.
Speaker 1:Okay, I wouldn't have the same work ethic that I have for myself, without seeing what excellence can be through others at that level. So, yeah, it's definitely shaped me, it's definitely shaped my organization, it's definitely shaped my property company, it's definitely shaped how I view things and how I talk to other people. And really, if you look at excellence across the board in any other industry, they're all operating at the top and they generally have the same traits they're organized, curiosity, learn, want to help, moving forward at speed. They're not dropping balls behind them and they're taking a group of people on a long journey. And that's what I've done numerous times absolutely, and that's great.
Speaker 2:I mean a lot of people love to to also learn about the lessons of challenges. What have been some of the challenges around your career?
Speaker 1:Oh sure, gosh. As I said, it's cutthroat. I've been stabbed in the back. I've been put up for jobs that I was told was mine, which weren't mine. I've had contracts end early. I've had contracts continue on. I've had to defend my position. I've been ridiculed in meetings. I've been spoken over all the things that happens to lots of other people. There's challenges every day. Um, I could use them as an excuse, but sod that, no, um I'm not going to.
Speaker 2:It's just no point.
Speaker 1:There's a point in knowledge, acknowledging it and addressing point by point where you can go. Maybe you could have done that, because that's the analysis, the analysis part which I think you all should do when things go wrong, because if you want to go, you want to go far, far fast. You should have done that, because that's the analysis part which I think you all should do when things go wrong, because if you want to go far, far fast, you should look at the mistakes that you've made and ensure that you don't make those, if the responsibility is on you. But how are the things that just happened to me? I've just been going along and I've been hit sideways by a bus and people have tried to pull the rug from under my feet.
Speaker 2:So you're resilient, very resilient. I think it's super important.
Speaker 1:Resilient, resilience, resilience is the word. Well, you know, I think a lot of us are, I think a lot of us have to be it's not just work resilient, that's life resilient, I mean the battles that some of us have to go through just to present themselves at a desk at nine o'clock, eight o'clock, 7.30. A lot of people have no idea. No idea what we go through. So I will always think to myself I'll hold my hat and tip my hat to a lot of people and just go well done you know, I think, but I always say people, the best way to not be disappointed is to not have any expectation from anybody.
Speaker 2:You know you can set the rules and what you want to achieve of them. But, um, you know, again, as I say, like, this is a chess game, some people play dirty and some people do right. But, you know, do stay on what you focus on, what you can control.
Speaker 1:Yes, one of my homologies will say control the controllables. Yeah, and it's a very. It's a very apt and very honest line which makes sense when you have controllables controlled when you have controllables controlled where I am in my career, I have a lot of controllables I control. When I, where I was in my career, I didn't, so I was always at the whim of things being done to me, because that's what happens when you're starting your career you're in a different place, so you're in a very much of a reactive mode or a reactive place, and that's very difficult to be in when you are especially being put in a disparate position 100%. However, what you can always do is ensure that your actions and your integrity match who you are and what you want to do. So if it all goes wrong all goes peak tongue you can at least hold your head high, and I think that's very important. I think people sometimes sacrifice their integrity for the environment or the situation that they're in, and it always comes back and kicks them in the arse. It always does.
Speaker 2:Always, always. I want to finish it, Sebastian. It's been such a great conversation. I know I can speak to another two hours with you, but we don't have all the time in the world, unfortunately.
Speaker 1:What is the vision of your future? Looks like very interesting. I've got a long journey um coming up in the next couple of days and, um, I was listening. I was listening to a podcast only a few hours ago about writing your story and writing your version of what your future is going to be like. I continually want to come and help people navigate the city. The property platform is going to continue to grow, and then my personal names are be a better father. Um, laugh, and barely laugh more.
Speaker 1:I don't barely laugh enough you did a lot on this one I know, yes, yes, but um you know, life can get a bit too serious and you have to remember that.
Speaker 1:Uh, it's, it's a journey, so balance is coming more and more into life. There are more definitely important things out there that I want to achieve Public recognition, non-executive director roles on a few companies, it's all going to happen. But the main thing is just to be myself, and I think it's taken a long time to be myself in different forums and I'm very comfortable with where I am at the moment and who I am and who the person I look at in the mirror is. So I'll continue to do that. I'll continue to be me and I will continue to smash my professional goals as well as balance it out with my personal goals, which are actually more important than my professional goals 100.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's a good place. I think sometimes we all like to separate business and personal life, but they're also intertwined, that you can't really divide them and you can't look after you know, your health or your family. It's not worth it. You know, I've I've been lucky to be mentored, but it was super successful, but they had nothing else and I realized, like what's the point? That's not the life that I want to live well, you can't take.
Speaker 1:You can't take it with you. I mean you work, you work to a point and then I mean I don't want to be remembered for the holidays working person in the office. I don't remember for being there on weekends for a report that has really no relevance, you know, three weeks after it was delivered. So it's um, it's important to be the best that you can be. I mean, I have my personal games. I want to improve, improve my 5k time. I'm in a good battle with some good people at the moment. I want to continue to learn, but when I look broader at the next five years, it's just to be happy within myself and to be in environments where I'm appreciated, where I'm celebrated, where I'm welcomed, where I'm growing and um, and that's why I'm very strategic with the people that I spend my time with and where I place my energy and pivot faster.
Speaker 2:If something's not right, yes, get out of it let's just say like fail fast, but move on very quickly. Yeah, yeah fast. I love that, yeah what about you?
Speaker 1:what are yours?
Speaker 2:mine. You know, you know what it is. I'm in this journey of with black rise right, so I'm excited about creating the most exciting, sustainable ecosystem where we not only discover fantastic talent in the black community, but we also engineer more growth, more, more money beyond just the black ecosystem, but also because the black ecosystems will also serve other other industries, other ethnicity and so much more. So this is what excites me the most right now Excellent, and the possibility of changing and taking it global from the very day one. So that's who I am, and again, I'm in a position where I know exactly what makes sense to me.
Speaker 2:I've worked, like you, in so many different companies. What makes sense to me is this and I'm going fast, going effectively and, at the same time, not rushing, but make sure that it's done the right way, because quality is important for me. I have a high standard and I want to make sure that it delivers something that people don't talk about Like look, this is something again average. Now it's going to be brilliant. So I'm looking forward. Sebastian, you've been such a fantastic guest.
Speaker 1:You've been a great host, wow, thank you. Next time we're doing person, next time we do lunch as well, of course, of course, of course, of course. And and we did say at the start, I actually dressed up because I thought this is- on video, so I will blame michael for that.
Speaker 2:This is what I should have told you, but never mind so good, so good tell me, tell us, if people want to get in touch with you, because you're also a speaker. We don't talk about that, but you're also a speaker. You're obviously doing a lot with UK, you know, with different organizations such as UK Black Tech. What's the best way? Is it LinkedIn?
Speaker 1:No, it's my webpage Email is hello at sebastianwilsoncouk Webpage is www wilsoncouk. Yes, linkedin sebastian wilson one and sebastian wilson on most socials. I'm pretty easy to find. So, yes, working with uh, uk black tech mark. Working with the princess trust on mentoring young individuals coming through. Also partnering with entrepreneurs, helping young talent as well navigate this crazy world that we all live in from a professional standpoint. And then working with other organizations as well. So there's quite a few um, angel investing as well. So, yeah, there's there's a fair few streams to my bow and yes, I do do public speaking and uh, it's just there's a fair few things when I stop and think I think, oh, there's a fair few things, but again it goes back to that organization. I don't really see I'm doing that much. Yeah, it's only when I sit down and explain it somebody. They look at me.
Speaker 2:I see their eyebrows raise how did you all let this like?
Speaker 1:I just do it I know I I get my day this morning to my um. I was on the phone to my friend after doing school drop off this morning and I said to my friend, what's your day like? I was like, okay, I'm gonna run now, then I'm gonna go here, then meet team at 11, another meeting with a couple of brokers at 12. Then I've got this podcast at one, then I need to go here at somewhere, then I need to be somewhere at three, then at four I'm going to go here. And he's always like are you all right? I'm like, yeah, yeah, fine, he's doing nice today. Honestly, when I start to get it out of my head, I uh, I think, okay, I'm doing quite a bit, but then for me just to look at it, it's just, it's just me at at speed and I like, I like being busy and it's important as long as I'm doing the right things and try my best, as always, to do the right thing.
Speaker 2:Exactly, I know you realize that you love it.
Speaker 1:What do you do is like so, uh, okay, cool, yeah yeah, I'm quite happy that I can't answer that question in one line. It it used to be. It used to be. I'm an Oracle DBA. That was me and that's what I defined myself as, and now it's like um, which? Which? Which lens are you coming from? You know, I do a number of things. I don't really say the word. I'm an entrepreneur, I just say I'm Sebastian.
Speaker 2:Wilson, I do this, this Enabler, it's just simpler. That's what I do. I just enable things for people.
Speaker 1:My one page says I'm a person of transformation. That was it.
Speaker 2:That's a nice one.
Speaker 1:I like that. Yeah, I'm a person of transformation. I suppose that's very true.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is very true. You've done that, isn't Sebastian? Such a pleasure to have you. We heard you zip your coat, so you're definitely going to your next.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, yes, yes. This microphone on this mac's a bit too good. I didn't realize you had that wicked.
Speaker 2:Oh my god caught me out all right, especially we let you go, and I'm sure everybody listened to this podcast. I hope you enjoyed this conversation. Listen to it twice because there's so much good takeaways from this, and I will see you very soon on the black rice podcast. Bye, everybody thank you.
Speaker 1:thank you for having me, flavia, my pleasure. Bye.
Speaker 2:Thank you for joining us on this episode of BlackRise. We hope that you found this conversation as inspiring as we did. Share your takeaways on social media and tag us as we wrap up. Remember that you can always stay connected with us. Join us on this journey of elevation, motivation and empowerment. Let's rise together, break barriers and create lasting change. Subscribe now to stay updated with our latest episodes and visit theblackrisecom to find out more. This is Black Rise, where excellence and impact converge to redefine the future. Until next time, keep rising, praising.