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Black Rise
Welcome to Black Rise podcast, your gateway to inspiring conversations with the crème de la crème of Black talent, leaders of 7-figure and above businesses across a spectrum of industries. Your host is Flavilla Fongang, an award-winning serial entrepreneur and she will be your guide on this journey.
Black Rise isn't just a podcast; it's an extension of the first business platform dedicated to connecting the business world to talented, skilled and experienced Black talent. Our aim is to create connections, foster collaboration, and fuel growth by bringing together Black professionals, visionary entrepreneurs, and groundbreaking businesses. We're here to bridge the networking gap, facilitating collaborative growth not only within the Black community but also far-reaching into the broader world.
In each episode, we dive deep into the stories and experiences of our remarkable guests. They share their insights, challenges, and strategies that have propelled them to the pinnacle of success. Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur, a seasoned professional, or simply hungry for knowledge and inspiration, Black Rise provides you with the tools and motivation you need to reach your own pinnacles of achievement.
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Black Rise
How To Embrace Being The First - Dr. I Stephanie Boyce, The First person of colour, Who Became President of...
Breaking barriers and constructing legacies, Stephanie Boyce shares her profound journey to becoming the first person of colour to lead the Law Society of England and Wales, defying the odds and setting a new precedence. Her tale, woven from her grandparents' Caribbean roots and their emphasis on education, showcases the intricate dance of perseverance and vision. This episode brims with Stephanie's personal trials, her advocacy evolution, and the resilience born from her grandfather's unfulfilled political aspirations, all of which shaped her pursuit of a seat at the Law Society's helm.
Embark on an intimate exploration of leadership and advocacy as Stephanie recounts the meticulous strategy behind her trailblazing campaign within the Law Society. She unpacks the tactical nuances of the election process, the challenge of dismantling traditional leadership archetypes, and the significance of a holistic approach that transcended the formation of a "black caucus." The conversation pivots to her presidency's focus on equality, diversity, and inclusion, where Stephanie's personal branding and powerful advocacy come to life, compelling listeners to appreciate the profound impact of representation and visibility in professional spheres.
Our final chapters delve into the essence of authenticity, empowerment through code-switching, and the pivotal role of adaptability across varied social interactions. Stephanie's narrative reframes such skills as assets rather than concessions, underscoring the empowerment in versatility. As we close with "Black Rise," we invite you to continue the dialogue, to engage, to elevate, and to join a collective movement that thrives on excellence and impact. Together, we rise, forging paths and fostering change for the voices and stories that shape our world.
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Sometimes we have to get terribly, terribly uncomfortable in order to become comfortable.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Black rice podcast. You'll get away to inspiring conversation with Black Rem de la Creme of Black talent, who are leaders of seven figure and above businesses across a spectrum of industries. I'm your host, flavilla Fongang, an award-winning serial entrepreneur, who will guide you on his journey. Black rice isn't just a podcast. It's an extension of our business platform, allowing the business world to connect with skilled, talented and experienced Black talent. Our mission is to serve as a bridge, connecting businesses with vast opportunities that lie in working with Black professionals, entrepreneurs and enterprise. We strive to showcase the value, creativity and innovation that Black talent brings to the table, fostering partnerships that drive economic growth, diversity and mutual success. Visit theblackricecom to find out more.
Speaker 2:Hello everybody, welcome back to another episode on the Black rice podcast. I hope that you've been enjoying every single conversation that you've listened so far on. The podcast been amazing and I've been enjoying it, and I hope that you enjoy it too. If there's anybody out there who want me to interview, please feel free to contact me, to message me, say hey, flavilla, I would love you to interview with so and so and so, but this time I have an amazing individual on this episode, Stephanie I, stephanie Boyce, I should say that correctly. If you haven't heard about I, stephanie Boyce, it's your chance to really listen and pay attention to the success of this phenomenal individual.
Speaker 2:I, stephanie Boyce, is an executive mentor, food leader, commenter and civic educator with a background in the law and global governance. Stephanie was, until October 2022, the president of the Law Society of England and Wales, and we want to know how she's done it, because she was the only person of color to hold this position. She's already made established her legacy, but I think there's so much more to learn about you, stephanie. How about you? I'm not too bad, thank you. So we're gonna start from the beginning, because people love to see the success, but they need to understand that the journey to success is not always easy, and I wanna start from the beginning. So I wanna know, I was like to know, in terms of your childhood, how was it like, who was the influence, maybe, when you were young, and how did I shape the person that you are, what you become?
Speaker 1:after that. So I'm first generation British. My parents, my grandparents, who came to this country from the Caribbean, they say. I say in search of faith, hope and greater opportunity, and I do not take the remarkable opportunities that has been afforded to me by their venture come in here for granted. And so with that, and thinking about being a very thoughtful, quiet child, believe it or not, I knew from a young age that I was determined to succeed.
Speaker 1:I was gonna honor my grandparents and my parents' legacy of coming to this country. And they came, of course, in the 60s, at a time when it was a completely different Britain, it wasn't as diverse across the spectrum of diversity, or at least it wasn't as widely accepted. But they came and they forged a path for me and countless others to follow in. And I've always said to honor their legacy. And my grandfather told us we were to make something of ourselves. He didn't tell us what, but we were to make something of ourselves and I was determined to do that. And I hope, with him looking down from beyond, that he has seen that I have done exactly what he asked me and others to do.
Speaker 2:I love that. I love the fact that your grandfather was able to inject within you the importance of being, of not just existing but actually also making an impact and, oh, accomplish something for yourself so you can be proud of what you do with your life, and I think that's beautiful, that you had somebody who made sure that you made the right decision and naturally that became part of who you became.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. And just to put it into context, my grandfather was illiterate. He couldn't read or write, and that stemmed from a number of reasons, in as much that our family, our background was poor, one of the reasons why he stopped going to school was because he became ashamed of the fact he had no shoes, the coals in his clothes and so forth, and so he stopped going to school. But he always said, if he had had an education and he was able to read or write, he would have been in the houses of parliament, and that's a desire, a burning desire, that I too harbor. So who knows?
Speaker 2:I love it. Do you know what's funny? Because, something like you, I didn't grow up fortunate to have a silver spoon in my mouth and again something. My mom didn't have the opportunity to study, to do very long studies, and she became pregnant at a very young age and she always said to me that your first husband is your education. And I've maintained that because, over look, the importance of education, not just to learn, but also who do we meet? Who are the people that pave the way and the network that we form? And from the past interviews that we had on the podcast, we've learned how important it is to forge those relationships from the moment of education and how it helps us open doors and that's just beautiful. So what happened after that? So did you study? Obviously, I'm pretty sure you studied. What did you study?
Speaker 1:Well, I was always, I think. Looking back, I was always a child who was very hungry to learn. I grew up on the whole principle of education and how far an education can take you in the world. And, as I say, listening to the experience and watching the experience of my grandfather, I became aware that I had a voice and that I was able to, even at a young age, that I was capable of presenting an argument in a positive way, not in a way that was disrespectful to others, but in a way that could galvanize people.
Speaker 1:I remember in my school days I was in middle school at the time where our school was one of the very few schools that didn't wear school uniforms, and I remember campaigning to get our school to wear, or get the school to invoke, the school uniform policy, and I obviously was alive to my family our home was a bit of a hub, a community hub, where on a Sunday, people would pop in, pop out We've all heard the stories, and my mother included where you cook enough food to make sure that, just in case, somebody popped by on a Sunday, or any other day actually, but you'd have enough food to feed them. And whilst I grew up in that era where children should be seen and not heard, I used to look behind the door or with my ear to the wall, listening to some of those conversations, listening to some of those injustices that was unfolding within our own community and also on the television. And I will never, ever forget the legacy of Mr Nelson Mandela, because he said, of all the things they took from me during his time in detention, all the things they took from him, the one thing they couldn't take from him and I'm paraphrasing, of course was what he had stored up there. They couldn't take away his education. And then fast forward.
Speaker 1:I go to live in America at the age of 12, and I come across the NAACP, which, if I remember correctly, is the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. But they spoke about a mind is a terrible thing to waste, and all of that injected inside of me that, the belief as to how far education could take me, looking at some of those injustices unfolding. I have repeatedly said about the lasting impression that going to live in America would have on me, as I saw people struggling to exercise their rights because of their low socioeconomic position, because of the color of their skin, and I wanted to use that voice to ensure the voiceless could be heard, to speak for them, to amplify my voice and to amplify their voices in turn.
Speaker 2:Wait a minute. How did you find yourself in America at the age of 12?
Speaker 1:So my parents split up when I was around age four and my mother remarried to my stepfather who was in the American Air Force, and so he got reposted back to America and we ended up in a place called Platsburg, new York. I'd never heard of it. So this is the first time a country girl being plucked from rural Buckinshamshire is going to live in America, upstate New York, on a military base. So this is my real first tasting of military life. So I've gone from living next door to a farm to living next door to big machineries, airplanes and security on the gates. You're restricted, it's galled on the base and so forth, and just thrust into the world of the military.
Speaker 1:And Platsburg is an interesting place in itself because it literally is upstate New York, in the middle of nowhere and there wasn't many people. It wasn't very diverse at that time, as I remember it, but we never really ventured beyond the base. We might go out to the local supermarket, but other than that we didn't really venture out. So everything took place on that base. That was your life, that was your social, personal, all sorts. So that's how I ended up in America and I stayed there for six years being educated, graduated from high school and I wanted to come back to this jurisdiction, the jurisdiction of England and Wales, to study law. And a day or so after graduating high school I was back on that plane back to the United Kingdom.
Speaker 2:Wow, it's interesting because I'm thinking about your life and how you've been into an environment where conformity and following order is important. I'm looking as well at what you've done with your career. We're going to get to that. That did not lead you to follow the norm in a way, but in a way. But it's all well structured. But this is very interesting. And also, you didn't pick up the American accent.
Speaker 1:No, no, one of my first jobs was in Burger King and of course you know, we know, that Burger King, like many other models, is a franchise model where individuals own the, they buy into the franchise, own the store and so forth. So I got employed at Burger King and I wanted to flip burgers and be in the bag, you know, with everyone else having a good time, and the owner of the store wouldn't let me go back there. She's like I need you on the mic. You've got to be on the mic Because if you remember at that time the model for Burger King was, you'd come in, the customer comes in, tells you what their order is and you repeat it over the mic and then your colleagues in the back pick it up and do the order. And of course the owner was adamant that the reason why her store was so popular was because here I was with a British accent on that microphone that was resonating through the store. So, yes, so there were incentives if you'd like to keep the accent, but yes.
Speaker 2:I love it. You know, it's exactly the same thing happened when I came to England and my accent I mean, I still have a very strong French accent. Yeah, I love it. This is what is also part of our brand, and I think people forget that you're sometimes trying too much to conform and you lose yourself in a process and a lot of that Not only someone was able to recognize your uniqueness and then tap into that, as well as commercial opportunity. Yeah, yeah, it's amazing. So you're back in England and determined to get involved in the law and then what happened?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I came back to England with a high school diploma from America and, of course, recognized very quickly that my high school diploma was not going to be accepted or enough to get me entry into a British university at that time. So I had to rethink things. So what it meant was that and I can't remember the details of how I found out probably went to the local college and found out, because you know that internet was a prolific in those days. It's not like I could get on a computer and tap, tap, tap, but somehow I found out, probably from a careers officer or something at the local job center, but found out that I needed to do an access to high qualification diploma which would allow me to get entry to university, which was more so geared at those mature students, because I was at that time 2021, you know all the time it's taken me at that point. So I was considered mature student to undertake the diploma part time over two years, and that's what I did. And again, I had a lovely lecturer who believed in me, guided me, encouraged me, and so I did that for two years. I got my high school diploma.
Speaker 1:Along the way, I'm working and I've got a job at now, working at British Rail as it was then, and I remember seeing an advert somewhere for a university in London advertising for a course, a law course, to aim specifically at part time students starting in February 1996. And my cousin who was, although I drove she was the more confident driver to drive in London because those days you could drive into London without facing you less and congestion charge and whatever other charge they've got these days. But she drove me straight down to Whitechapel, oldgate, oldgate East, I think it was down there to London Guildhall University, parked at the front door. And I still remember walking up those steps of the university as it was then. It's now merged, of course, with London and now it is London Metropolitan University. I remember walking up those steps and I signed up and I started part time studying law and I was so proud, so proud, and then by September 1996, working, I thought to myself you know what, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to do it big and I packed up my worldly goods that I couldn't pack up and fit into my car. I sold.
Speaker 1:I remember people saying to me where are you going? You know, are you crazy? Why are you giving up your flat? Where are you going to live? Well, I've got accommodation in Marlend and I'm grateful because I am was the recipient of not having to pay tuition, university tuition fees, and I was the recipient of a maintenance grab from the local authority. And even though I had all of that, it still wasn't enough and I ended up leaving law school with a debt of about £25,000, as it was then, which is probably gosh. I don't even know what today's equivalent is. But the point was, yeah, a lot of money, a lot of money. But the point was I did it and I've never regretted it, never regretted giving up that flat, looking back, not listening, because my career, my life, is peppered with instances of where I did not listen to people, and that is part of my story in as much that sometimes the best lessons come with a sting in the tail that it's okay to write your own story, run your own race, live your own. The best version of you To know that sometimes the advice that other people will give you is not necessarily the advice that will be for you, and it's knowing what advice to take and what advice to leave well alone Nice to live, and you know it's so interesting.
Speaker 2:You can't see me because obviously we're doing audio only, but I'm smiling because I literally remember the first step of getting to London Good Hall before it became London Metropolitan University, so we also went to the same place again. Coming to Paris, we stood cases and not knowing what's going to happen, but I think one thing that tells me about your journey and my journey is that we were, our mindset was so strong that we knew that we would find solutions. Some people sometimes just stop at problems. Okay, I'm facing a situation right now. Let me think about how I can find a solution. It's not, it hasn't been done, it's okay, I'm going to be that person's going to make it happen, and what you say is so key.
Speaker 2:You know some advice. You can listen to this, but not only need to pay attention to it, because people will put their own limitation into your mind, and I think it's important to recognize, though some advice would be great and others would be just wait a minute. This is you being fair, what you can achieve and feel that I'm like you. But life is about living. Life is about trying and and putting yourself in some time uncomfortable situation, taking risk at that, necessary if you want to grow, and that's a beautiful thing that I'm recognizing from your career, which is fantastic, what, and you know, sometimes those moments are so key in our career, and whether, what, if I didn't do that, my part would be different, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. And you know the thing about it is one of my favorite sayings is don't share your million dollar dreams with one dollar thinkers. And that is so key. You know, when I look back, I mean I had mostly people who had encouraged me, but I was at London Metropolitan yesterday, in fact, delivering a lecture you know, careers and about my life and so forth and I always say that run your own race, write your own story.
Speaker 1:And this young lady came up to me and she said look, she said so much of what you said resonated with me. Because she said her child people told her you can't start, continue to study and have a child, you need to stay home, get your priorities right and so forth. And she said I didn't listen. She said I didn't listen because I knew I could. And she's on her last year about to graduate. Imagine if she had listened, imagine if we had listened to lots of naysayers. But you know, the mind is like ake into a garden you plant the seeds and you cultivate, you nurture, you water, you feed it, it grows. And that is whether it's negative or positive thoughts. Once they've said, you know, some people allow that to seep into their very core and it will dictate the rest of their life. And, as I say, coming from a low, low socio economic background, a counsellor state, single parent household, I was not. I was determined to not allow my background to dictate my life, my story.
Speaker 2:Yeah, your life, your future, you know your beginning doesn't have to define the end of your story. And that's so beautiful. I want to say something. I can't remember my mind, but I think it's okay. It's not because he hasn't been done before that it can't be done now. And I think it's sad sometimes when you hear there's a lot of firsts. But again, we need those firsts to happen more often, so we change the norms. That has been established. The standard has been established of what success looks like. That's such a beautiful thing that they definitely appreciate you sharing those stories. We need them more. We need even more firsts, firsts in so many different categories so we can know that, yeah, all of it.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and it is about visible. You know. It's about being visible as well, because if you can see it, you can be it, but also being prepared to share your journey, because that's a question I've been asked lots why do you tell people A that it took you four times to be president, or that you come from the background that you come from? And I say, well, why not? I'm not embarrassed, this is who I am, this is my story, this is my life. It has shaped, it has peppered, it, has propelled Whatever it's got me to where I've got to today. And I'm not embarrassed because this is who I am.
Speaker 2:This is who you are. I want to go back, because you talk about being the presence of a lost sight and you were the first person of color and people who don't know that you are tempted four times A lot of people when they fail the first time and they just give up OK, that's not for me. I will never get it. So we want to go backwards. What has been your journey that led you you carry a journey to lead you to become the presence of a lost sight, and and why you didn't stop and you kept going where you you know. First time you could say, OK, I'm, I'm out by CEO. Second time, you kept going, again and again.
Speaker 1:The reason why I didn't stop is that belief, that resounding belief that I could. I could do it. And, despite what people told me, despite what people tried to get me to believe, I believed that I could do it. And you're right. There were lots and lots and lots of people who said to me after the first attempt, they said I would have given up, I would have taken the hint, and I'm like hint what hint? Well, you know, I said I don't know what you're talking about. Whatever hint there was, it wasn't mine.
Speaker 1:I was not prepared to buy into that narrative. When people told me, never in our lifetime will we see an ethnic minority become president of the Law Society, when people told me that we need someone who can converse with government as if I can converse with government I'd get frustrated with the work in the building. And absolutely did I get frustrated with the workings of the building. Absolutely did I. But and you know, stephanie, go home and rest. You are embarrassing yourself. Well, I think what they meant was they were probably embarrassed because I wasn't, and the more they told me I couldn't was, the more I was determined that I could.
Speaker 1:And what if? Imagine what if I did not put myself forward, just so many of us at times. We buy into, we allow those seeds. Go back to my garden analogy we allow those seeds of doubt to grow, and not only do we allow them to grow, we cultivate them, we nurture them, we encourage them to grow. And I was determined not to. That wasn't my story, that wasn't my beginning, it wasn't my end, it wasn't even mine to take on board. And so what if? What if you dare to make yourself become so uncomfortable that you are the only person and you will be perhaps at times, I perhaps was the only person who could see that dream, because I knew, once I got there, how powerful would it be. When I got there, you know, I became, at the one hundred and seventy seven, the six female, the first black, first person of color to become president of the Law Society. And it's almost 200 year history.
Speaker 2:You serve a six female.
Speaker 1:Six female, oh my God. And I was determined to make my time count. I was determined to make a difference, and there are a number of reasons why people put themselves forward for that position, but I was determined to do it differently, to do it my way.
Speaker 2:So tell us how did you get the job, because I think it's important that no OK first time, and I want also to understand what did you learn from the first, second and third time that kept you going and make sure that on the fourth time you got it.
Speaker 1:I'm a people watcher, so I love to watch people. I watch how people interact, how they present themselves, and I listen, I learn, and so what I learned from those previous attempts was the way that people interacted, who they spoke to. I listened to the ideas of what they thought a leader might look like, and that's one of the things that I speak very much about now is in terms of who we put in positions of influence, who we think our leaders should look and sound like, who they should be, and so I was determined to challenge that. But going back to the question about how I got there, so you are elected from the body of council who sit on the law society, who are elected by either their constituency or local law society or so forth, who sit on council. So there's about 95 to 100 members of council, and so you can self nominate to put yourself forward for deputy vice president, and once you're elected as deputy vice president, you will go on to become vice president. It's an automatic trajectory to get to become president, unless, of course, something happens to you. So you're elected. So one of the things was about campaigning, so you'd listen to what people have to say to you. Well, I'm not going to vote for you because you know we need someone who, as I say, can converse with government or you'll get frustrated with the work into the building and actually I'm going to. I promise my vote to someone else and I figured out very quickly so the law society has a transferable vote system and so, depending on how many candidates put themselves forward, you'd vote for your first person and then you have. You know if you've got four candidates, but you vote in order of preference who you want to win.
Speaker 1:But I had figured out very quickly that many have many elections have been won and lost on the first vote or the second vote, actually not the first vote. I said to people and it's amazing that I have to explain this to people but I said to people on the fourth occasion, third occasion, fourth occasion when you vote for me, please vote for me alone, do not use your remaining votes. And that's very difficult to tell people, because I knew that previous people had won on the first vote, but as the votes got transferred down, they had lost. So it didn't matter that I was your preferred candidate, but if you used your second vote, even if most will say your second vote, not your third or fourth or fifth or sixth, as there has been, but that could be lost.
Speaker 1:But trying to get people to give up their votes is interesting but I did bring a few people with me and people who then convinced others to do it. But it was really, really interesting, those conversations, trying to explain to people so I was voted you campaign, you speak to people the amount of emails I sent out, the amount of and of course I didn't belong to a private members club. I at that time I did not belong to a livery company. I do not belong to a livery company, and so what was interesting is those networks, those all important networks that we talk so much about was trying to leverage those networks to get me into those, into that position.
Speaker 2:I still trying to get my head around. You know, when I hear about a low society and of England and Wales, I'm seeing a majority white audience and takes a lot of courage to try to change the mind of them, seeing you beyond the color of your beautiful melanin. How did you do that?
Speaker 1:Well, you know, when I was campaigning and lots of colleagues said to me we're going to form a black caucus and we want you to be part of that black caucus. And I said I don't want to be part of this black caucus for obvious reasons.
Speaker 2:What is this obvious reason? So we understand that we're on the same page again looking at the demographic of council.
Speaker 1:I can't remember at the time but I think at that time we may have had. Let me have a think. We certainly in my time on council, I think towards the latter days, I think maybe different, but we had one black man and in fact I think most of my time there was no black men and we had about five black women if that, including myself.
Speaker 1:And then we had other characteristics, diverse characteristics, on there. At one point, you know, we had somebody from South Korea and so forth, and you know, colleagues, as you know, the visibility increased on council. We started to have greater representation on council, but even now I don't know what the statistics are, but there are not many black people on council. Today. The diversity in terms of around Black people has decreased rather than increased.
Speaker 2:So you've joined this court. It would have. It would have diminished your power. Oh, it would have put you in the box. Do you think that's what would have happened?
Speaker 1:Well, I wasn't joining any caucus. I wasn't joining any movement or any caucus because, yes, that was a but, that could have been a possibility. But also, you know, it's a bit like when we look at anything that we're asked to join, we have to look at, or we should be looking at, what are the aims, the objectives. You know, is it something that you know I'm prepared to, to peg myself against, buy into, even these days? You know, if somebody invites you to connect on LinkedIn, gone are the days where you might just have a quick look, but you've got to look, you've got to really interrogate their post, because, you know, and I posted something today and I thought that name sounds familiar and I had to go back and look and see if there was any controversy around that individual. So it's all those sorts of things, and quite rightly, looking at the demographic as to who is my electoral body. So I said, but what I want you to do, I want you to tell people to vote for me, and not because I'm black, but because I want you to tell them why to vote for me. And you tell them because of X, y, z, and I said, and you encourage them to vote. And of course colleagues did, but also there were. So when we were At Hustins, which is when the four candidates had to present themselves, you, you give a speech and address council and you also ask questions that council put forward and ask you.
Speaker 1:On the day, and Somebody called up and asked a question about how will, if you are electric, success electors, dvp, how will you promote as I remember the question equality, diversity and inclusion? And I thought, oh no, because we've been given a report the night before that gave me every statistic, why, as a black female in the solicitor profession, I am was the least likely to succeed. And I had all of those statistics right and around in my head. But I'm looking out at my demographic or those who are going to vote for me, and I thought they don't want to hear that, you know. So I then said, when it came to be I was the second person to answer, the first lady spoke about the female demographic and so forth, and I looked at this piece of paper where I had written a big capital letters, the words smile. There was also another piece of paper that said actors, though it were impossible to fail, the words of Dorothea Brand.
Speaker 1:And I said, with a big smile on my face I said because I'm thinking I'm going to be damned if I do and damned if I don't. So I'm just going to make the best of this one. So I said how will I promote equality, diversity and inclusion? I'm going to be visible, I'm going to role model it. And do you know how many colleagues came up to me? I've got this big rounding, you know applause.
Speaker 1:And how many colleagues came up to me after, gave me a pat on the back and and so forth and said you know I wasn't going to vote for you, but now I've changed my mind.
Speaker 1:You've got my vote, and I've heard so much of that along the way in terms of the expectations as to what people thought I would Advocate, for what I would speak about and so forth. And for me and not everybody will agree with me, and that's fine, because we weren't all made to agree with each other as long as we do so in a respectful way is that lots of people expect me to talk about being black and so forth. And of course I did have that opportunity to do some excellent work around the whole George Floyd Apparent events in America. But I was determined that if we were going to make a difference, a Markable difference, it had to be a journey and a conversation that everyone could see their role in and be part of, and and that was how I ran my presidency and managed to galvanize People into saying we have an issue. I didn't tell him what the issue was, other than things need to change, and I want to see things change by the time I leave office. And, of course, the rest is history, if you like.
Speaker 2:As we continue this engaging conversation, remember that black rice is more than just a podcast, with dynamic platform where businesses can connect, collaborate and prosper with black professionals, entrepreneurs and black owned companies. Our commitment to diversity, inclusion and empowerment Re shapes industries and builds a future where black excellence flies globally. So don't forget to subscribe and give us a five star review on iTunes. I'm learning two things from you, and I think this is so powerful. People to really understand this. When you are in a majority non-black Network or is it a low site here of England and Wales you understood that you don't need to convince everybody, but you need to have advocates for you. So you spoke to the one who are already close to you and then get them to speak on their behalf. And this is super powerful, because I think people sometimes feel that they need to be, you know, friend or or be trusted by everybody, but sometimes it's a bit like beer instead of you telling it, good somebody else to speak on your behalf.
Speaker 1:And that's super powerful, but you know even now, when, when people ask me, stephanie, what can we do for you, I always say speak my name in rooms that I am not in, and and that is so powerful, I can't be in every room and even if you are in every room, you can't get around to every person. You know those connections, that people, they're invaluable People calling you up and saying can you do this, can you come and see me? I'd love to have coffee, tea, whatever, take you for lunch dinner, and that is so amazing. It extends your reach and I would encourage more people to Encourage other people to speak your name in rooms that you are not in 100%, and you know, I agree with you because I'm a business person.
Speaker 2:So, as well, we love business person. But number of times people say, how did you get to work with Metas? It's because somebody say my name in the room that I wasn't and they advocated for me, that I was the only choice, the only company that made sense and so powerful. This is also, you know, the power of building your personal brand. But I want to come back to the second point that I wanted to make, which is often people expect us to talk about our blackness in the position of power.
Speaker 2:But the reason why I'm doing this podcast is it's not about us being black, it's about what do we bring to the table. It's obvious, isn't it? It's obvious, you know what I mean. But while we're doing as an exercise, it's important to realize that, beyond that color, we are more than that. We are an act of kindness, we are opportunities that come behind this, and you've been able to demonstrate this so well.
Speaker 2:This is exactly that, is that? Don't let your skin be the only reason people decide to work with you. And exactly what you say I will, but who I am, I will be your presentation on what is all about when it comes to diversity anyway, and again, there's never been seen before six women all this time, and you're the only black woman. It's ridiculous to think that we have to wait probably another 100 years for this to happen again. But I think it's also for the younger generation or maybe other black individuals to think that they can do it too, or think that it's too hard. It's too much hard work. I can't be bothered. I'm going somewhere else, but that's the wrong attitude.
Speaker 1:We have to be in these spaces, we have to put our head above the parapet, and even now you know it's exhausting, completely out of in different things.
Speaker 2:So the Grammys happened recently and Beyoncé is among the most you know recognized or awarded artists actually never won album of the year and GZ has been. Gz came on just like it doesn't make sense. Your math isn't my thing, but it's exhausting. You know to always feel it. Why are we not seeing me? And what can we say to people who think you know I want to go somewhere else where it's not so hard? What would you say to them?
Speaker 1:Well, first of all, it goes back to sometimes we have to get terribly, terribly uncomfortable in order to become comfortable, and I go back to those four attempts. I go back to my high school diploma not being recognized in this country. I go back to the fact that I came from a low socio economic position, trying to navigate my way through those networks that I didn't have access to. I wasn't privately educated, and the list goes on. But I could buy into those negatives if I chose to. They could define and dictate my life if I wanted to. But, as I say, I was determined, and still determined, to become uncomfortable in order to become comfortable, to stick my head above the parapet, because before I started upon my journey, I said if I could change or inspire one person, I'm quite happy to go to my resting place. But the fact that I've been able to, and so many of us have touched lives, we've made a positive difference. We are advocating and going back to the point that you make around and I'd say this all the time.
Speaker 1:I spoke it yesterday we share a common characteristic we are black, but we are not one homogeneous group. My experience is different than yours, than different to those who are listening. We come from totally different experiences. We like different food, you know different music and so forth and so forth and so forth. Our experiences are different. We need to stop limiting ourselves, packing ourselves into one group and allowing that to define us. It will be uncomfortable, it is exhausting, but imagine what if?
Speaker 2:All the ifs and what can be good, and I think that's so important to be positive and that's the power of really understanding positive mindset in your success. I wanted to ask you a question, which was? You talk about impact, so people maybe don't know so much about the Law Society of England and Wales. Tell me about you know, what impact have you made over your time as a President of the Law Society of England and?
Speaker 1:Wales. There are so many things that I'm proud of. I remain proud to this day, but so many things, you know, when I found out that I had been successfully elected as Deputy Vice President, I was walking down away from the Law Society of Charts Relay, and the Law Society, of course, is the professional body, representative body for solicitors some 200, over 200,000 solicitors in England and Wales. And, of course, you know, when people now introduce me as a leading lawyer, expert, you know, top lawyer in the country it absolutely takes my breath away. And so to be elected into this position and my tenure, let's be clear, came during some of the most tumultuous times in our nation's history. My presidency was defined by navigating those uncharted waters and leading the legal profession through unprecedented challenges, such as a pandemic tell into Brexit, war in Ukraine, withdrawal in Afghanistan, over 70 ministerial resignations and so forth, as well as the death of Her Majesty the Queen. All of those things I had to be the face of, the leading voice of the authoritative voice of and, if anybody's interested, there was an interview I did with Channel 4 in 2021, it's still out there on Channel 4 News on Google, and that sums up what it meant to me the tears. Just, I thought they were going to cut that part out but they decided to keep it. But the tears that came to me because of the impact on me, the impact that I've had and I don't know what that looks like in terms of numbers, but I am was am determined to not only leave the legal profession more diverse and inclusive than the one I entered, but professions, because we know the reality is that in 21st century Britain, your background still defines how far you can go, and far too often in our society the road to senior leaderships has been too narrow and too difficult to navigate.
Speaker 1:And when I was asked the question on social mobility day, how did we resolve the issue of social mobility? My response was we start as a society, we start to rethink how we view leaders, who we put in positions of influence and power, and we need to think about that. Because what if, going into that presidential position, coming from the background that I had come from? And maybe, who knows?
Speaker 1:Somebody asked me the other day why did it take them? Four attempts? I said because they couldn't see what I could see, they didn't know what I knew, and so I was absolutely determined to make an impact make a difference and some of that has been recognised, with three honorary doctorates, lifetime achievement awards, inspirational awards and other awards, making the Black Power list three years in a row, and so forth. So some of those achievements have been recognised and I'm grateful for everybody who has advocated for me, known and unknown, who has spoken up for me, who's speaking up for me, supporting me, encouraging me, and who has made that crooked path a bit smoother, because I we are standing on the shoulders of giants. I love it. Those who've gone before.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So, look, can I tell you something? The first time I heard you speak, you were on stage with Hillary Clinton and I wasn't on my phone. I wasn't really paying attention. I wasn't paying attention first, I was just typing away and I heard your voice and then I look up that, like what is happening right there and I think what was beautiful. I was pleasantly surprised because of the way you spoke so well and so elegantly, and you can hear from the sound of your voice.
Speaker 2:We've told people from this podcast that we didn't grow up with a silver spoon in our mouth, but the way we sound now might not be ghetto-ish, right, and people might think, oh, wow, you are code-switching or whatsoever. You're not being. I'm glad you brought that up, yeah, so I want to address these things that you know we talk about. Our background, where we come from, doesn't have to define our future, and I think it's important that we remain authentic to who we are. People who listen to your voice might as well. She sounds so posh. Who does she think she is right now that she has to emulate the environment that she is in, to step away from whatever it is? What do you say to people who listen to this like, wow, she probably not herself. She doesn't speak like that when she's in private.
Speaker 1:Well, you can ask any of my family. They'll tell you how I behave in private as opposed to public. But you know, let's address this issue of code-switching. It is one of the questions that I'm asked the most in public and, notably, it comes from our own community and we and it really annoys me the last time I was asked this question I was in a city firm in London.
Speaker 1:A vast audience and a young man put his hand up and he said you know, listen into you. He said you know, with the background, coming from the background you've come from, and he went on you know, single parent, household counselor state. He said it's clear that you have assimilated. There was a bit of a gasp in the room and he didn't take that cue either and he continued and he continued, and he continued and I could fill my blood pressure rise. Yeah, because he said you know, it's obvious you weren't brought up like that. Coming from the background you've come from, he said so, you've assimilated over the years. I cut him off eventually and I said to him thank you, I said, but can I correct you? I said you have made so many assumptions about my life. You have assumed that because I have come from a counselor state, a single parent household, a low-sensure economic position, that this, whatever this is, was never there and that somehow along the line I have acquired it. And I said to him. I said you are wrong, because the point is, is that anybody who knows me and in fact we had an old family friend who asked me the question the other day Stephanie, did you know when you were growing up on a preventable farm in Albury, which is the counselor state I reference, did you know you would grow up to become the president of the Law Society of England and Wales? And I said, of course not. I didn't even know what the Law Society was, let alone being president.
Speaker 1:The whole point is to address that issue of code switching. Well, actually, let me address the issue of whether or not the way we present, you know I'm in my own home, the comfort of my own home, and if I choose to some things that I will do in my own home, you can imagine whether that's using the toilet with the door open or whatever. You know, of course I wouldn't do that in public. There are things we do in the comfort of our own home that we do not take out side of our home, for obvious reasons. There is a persona that one has when you know you're around, when my mother is talking to me. Mother or my father can talk to me at times how they choose, and of course I'm not going to, you know, address them back. Sometimes I might if I disagree with the point they're making, but you know there's a deference. There isn't there, whereas if somebody on the street stopped me I may react slightly differently to what they are saying to me. So the whole point is I'm going to address the issue of the code, or code switching.
Speaker 1:Code switching has been hijacked. It to become a negative, to become this narrative that you know, certainly when it's been asked of me, is coming out as a negative. You've sold out. That's not how you were. Firstly, would I have been elected as president of the? And I've had people say to me well, you don't act black. I've had people call me names. I've had people say all sorts to me and that goes back to the limitations that we are placing on ourselves, whether we realize it or not. The young people who write to me or say to me the noise that is coming from my friends and my family and I say block it out, stop listening to that noise. The fact is, we all buy into a code, whether that is the neighborhoods we live in, the clothes we wear, the brand of clothing we wear, the food we eat, the people we hang around with. Whatever, we all buy into a code. And if you are in any doubt, simon Cooper writes in his book Chums where he talks about the fact that Boris Johnson, like him or loath him, boris Johnson had to learn the code because, despite the fact that he was privately educated and so forth, he was not born into the upper class. So he had to learn the code of the Jacob Rees mobs and everybody else in order, and he did it very well, despite what you might think about him. He did it quite well until the end of that, but he did it very well to flourish within that cohort and to learn the code. So the whole point is, yes, there have been things along the way that I have learned, which goes back to what I said about people watching.
Speaker 1:I went to work at a non-departmental body. I noticed that everybody in positions of senior leadership, decision makers I was fascinated. They all wore Rolex watches. I was absolutely fascinated. I'd spend my whole time going. What is going on here? Anyway, what do you think?
Speaker 1:The first, one of the first things I did, I went and I bought myself a Rolex watch, yeah, and seemingly volunteering. When his bodies, these organisations, would not employ me and pay me, they were quite happy to have me come and work for free. And I hear people saying all the time people who sometimes don't have qualifications, but people who say, well, I'm not going to work for free why, there are other ways that we get paid other than in money. And I spent a lifetime I absolutely believe in a lifetime of service and I spent a lifetime and I do committing myself to that life of service and by through volunteering, I got to sit next to some of the best legal minds that this country had to offer. They got to hear from me, they got to learn my name, they got to advocate for me and, yes, of course, because they were using words that sometimes I didn't understand.
Speaker 1:So I'd write, take a mental note or write it down, look it up when I got home and, of course, I would pick up on some of those words, because when you go to some of these dinners and these formalities, you can't you have to know which knife and fork and which glass to use, and which you go left or you go right. Of course, you've got to know these things. So let's rethink this narrative around code switching, because the reality is we shouldn't be opting out because we're already opted in anyway. But the point is, how do we use this to our advantage? How do we take advantage of it and make it work for us?
Speaker 2:There's so many great takeaways that you shared in this segment, which I really love and I love. I've studied psychology for a long time and I really love to study people just to understand the importance of what you're describing as a social element of tribe. But we're all looking for a tribe and when you join a tribe, what's important to realize? That if you want to join a tribe, there's certain things about that tribe that you need to fit in for them to believe that you are, but also you inject something into, also change it. So it's taking in, it'll be also giving in both ways, which is very important. This is what you've done and has beautiful and never limits that you say. That I really like as well. It's adaptability.
Speaker 2:The way I speak to a child is not the same way I speak to you know, to my employees, or way to my hairdresser. We have different conversations and I think sometimes that mindset that we have to be exactly the same. No, we're not exactly the same. When I speak to my niece, I don't have the same conversation that I have when I speak to my lawyer or whatsoever and so on. So we are continuously adapting ourselves to situation and if you only be one kind of person. That's why you create your own limitations and you don't realize that you create your own limitation by not and I always say to people please do travel, because the more you travel you realize that the world is so different. And if you're not able to be, and allow it to say, observant enough to see how the world you live in is not in your own way, you will always be limiting yourself. And you know, I'm staying at home because I don't want to understand this. You know, the first time I sat in a dinner and there was about three, four, something, oh my God, and I took time. I took my time as and I looked at everybody else and waited, waited for everybody to add their food you let the you know the person who was hosting the dinner to take their food first. You watch. So, even when you don't know, you sit back and you watch instead of just embarrassing yourself.
Speaker 2:And I think sometimes people don't understand the importance of being curious and observant and knowing how to adapt yourself. And then I think that you can't. You know there's a, there's a thing in the sense that you, you can't change the space. If you can't move inside the house, I have you or I just shouting outside, but you know inside the house who sit down at the table and have a conversation, how can you advocate for who we are and if you are still demonstrating only one side of who you are?
Speaker 2:And that's one thing that you say is so key that I wish we put on this too is that adaptability will take you very, very far, but be observant and sit back and learn every time so you can bond with people or maybe don't look like you. You can bond and adapt. And look at my friends, our friends, who are 18 years old to 70 years old, because I know how to adapt to all these different individuals and that's so important, right? I want to say something that I like to ask questions, that what is a question you wish more people ask you and don't ask you enough, and how would you answer to that? That's a question, gosh.
Speaker 1:That's a good question and I certainly know the questions I'd wish people stop asking. But I think the question I guess is a question I wish that people would ask me. I mean, I get lots, I get asked lots and lots of questions. So I think probably the question that I wish people would ask gosh, that's a. That's a difficult one. It is an interesting one. I guess the question people ask is you know, why are you not in politics? That was one I got asked the other day.
Speaker 2:I think it's a good question. Why are you not in politics?
Speaker 1:Well, for anyone listening, who wants to nominate me, then absolutely to the appointed chamber. But as for elected politics, it is an interesting question. I think we need to sort out our politics. I think it's very divisive at the moment, possibly toxic, and so I think it takes a brave person. But to all listening, that's not to dissuade or put anyone off, because I think that we need to be in these places to create change. We need to lift our voices, leave the doors open and go back to what you said not limit ourselves and that is one thing that I have chosen not to do in my life is not to place limitations on myself, and that was the thing. Whilst others chose to put labels attached labels to me, I refuse to buy into those labels that others sought to put on me, and I believe that I led with that determination, that that sprinkling of resilience and determination and joy. Whatever you do, you've got to do it, love it and remember your purpose, because your purpose will always make you smile and take you to where you've got to go.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and your purpose is so important to know your purpose because it will also help you say yes or no. Sometimes people will come to you for things that are not relevant, so you can say no and it keeps you aligned with whatever you try to achieve, and it's just so important. You know, when you've been the President of the Law Society of England and Wales, it's such a big title. How does, how does a vision of the future looks like for you, stephanie?
Speaker 1:Well, every single day is a learning day. I'm meeting new people, encountering new things every single day. The vision for the future is where your background does not define how far you can go in our society. It is your skills, your attributes, your ability to get into action, to put yourself forward. Because this did not come to me, it did not whilst I was sat at home, it did not land in my lap. I had to go and fight for it. I'm still fighting and advocating for the space that I'm occupying, and so we will get tired, we will get dissuaded, but it's about. The lesson for me is in how did you get up? Not in how you got knocked down and stay down. Staying down was never an option for me. It's always about in getting up, and if you think about some of the great inventors in our society, some of the everyday things that we take for granted, they didn't happen on the first attempt. Some people, it took years. So it is about hard work, it is about resilience and it is about the absolute belief in yourself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolute belief in yourself. It starts with you. You know I was thinking there's no competition. You are your main competition. You know the hurdles that you put in your mind, the network that you have around you start with you, and how are you feeling yourself? Are you clear about your purpose, and so on and so on. I want to finish with that, because it's so key, which is that don't wait for things to happen to you. Make things happen to you. Create your own opportunities. If I waited for things to happen to me, I wouldn't be where I am right now, and what you say is super key and don't wait to be. Don't be afraid to be the first. You know there's so many firsts that we haven't done yet, so there's a lot of opportunities for people to take. Stephanie, if you want to be in touch with you, what's the best way to reach out? Are you a LinkedIn person?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm on LinkedIn and if you tap in, I think it's if you tap in I, stephanie boys, that should bring it up. It's got to be there. So, yep, I, stephanie boys, will bring you up on LinkedIn. Bring me up on LinkedIn. I'm on YouTube. I have a YouTube channel, which again is at isteffanyboys-z or Z I9 FM, and, of course, on Twitter at I, stephanie boys, one with no E on boys, no yes, we didn't talk because you also burn your own consultancy advising some of the biggest household names, including link letters, lrp, and you also regular public speakers.
Speaker 2:So that's some of the areas. So, in terms of your consultancy, what type of expertise do you provide and guidance?
Speaker 1:So strategic advising either in D and I. Leadership, thought leadership as well. Change management governance is one of my specialisms as well. Mentoring I do mentoring as well, so so there's a whole mix of that. But, of course, scale my website. That will give you more information as well.
Speaker 2:Stephanie, you've been a fantastic guest. I learned so much with you and I love how, with so much similarities in our beginnings. And yeah, you're a brilliant woman and you definitely establish your legacy. The only first gag word, oh my God is but let's hope that we have more, and definitely more than six women would be great, and even more black. You know black men. It would be good. You know as well. So let's make it happen for all our guests. I hope you enjoy this episode and I will see you soon on the next episode. Bye everybody.
Speaker 2:Thank you for joining us on this episode of Black Rise. We hope that you found this conversation as inspiring as we did. Share your takeaways on social media and tag us as we wrap up. Remember that you can always stay connected with us. Join us on this journey of elevation, motivation and empowerment. Let's rise together, break barriers and create lasting change. Subscribe now to stay updated with our latest episodes and visit the black rise dot com to find out more. This is Black Rise, where excellence and impact converge to redefine the future. Until next time, keep rising.