Black Rise

How to Navigate Your Entrepreneurial Journey with Resilience and Vision - With Andy Ayim MBE

• Black Rise • Season 1 • Episode 16

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"When my journey led me from the streets of Tottenham to the diverse landscapes of South America, little did I know how these experiences would shape my entrepreneurial spirit and passion for human connection." In a heart-to-heart with Andy Ayim MBE, we unravel his inspiring narrative, from overcoming educational barriers to becoming a beacon for investing in diversity. His insights into the value of role models and the credibility lent by recognitions strike a chord, reflecting the undeterred resilience of the black business community.

This episode isn't just a conversation; it's a masterclass in cultivating relationships that catapult careers to new heights. I share my own anecdotes, from the university lecture halls to breaking into management consulting, revealing the power of mentorship and the art of mastering an organisation's cultural language. Andy and I get candid about the entrepreneurial mindset, questioning whether being too resourceful can sometimes limit our growth and the importance of adapting and expanding horizons to fuel our potential and passions.

Finally, we venture into the world of angel investing, a realm where Andy's Angel Investing School is democratising access and fostering a new wave of investors. The stories of empowering black professionals, nurturing startups, and the sheer importance of aligning investments with one's values resonate deeply. Join us for an episode that's not just about recounting success but about imparting the wisdom to create a lasting community impact and weave a legacy that transcends financial gain.

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Black Rise is not just a podcast but an extension of our Business platform. We are on a mission to bridge the gap between businesses and the immense potential of Black talent. We provide a dynamic platform where businesses and individuals can connect, collaborate, and prosper with Black professionals, entrepreneurs, and black-owned companies. We strive to showcase the value, creativity, and innovation that Black talent brings to the table, fostering partnerships that drive economic growth, diversity, and mutual success.

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Speaker 2:

For a lot of these founders from our backgrounds they don't have networks to angel investors or friends and family who are wealthy or even venture capitalists, to become hard for them to imagine how they could raise capital. So that education gap is quite steep. And then that network that we need to build actually is often brand new and starting from scratch. So sometimes those are the barriers that inhibit us from thinking bigger and raising our aspirations and able to even raise capital and go in that direction.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Black rice podcast. You'll get a way to inspiring conversation with La Creme de la Creme of black talent, who are leaders of seven figure and above businesses across a spectrum of industries. I'm your host, flavilla Fongeng, an award-winning serial entrepreneur, who will guide you on his journey. Black rice isn't just a podcast. It's an extension of our business platform, allowing the business world to connect with skilled, talented and experienced black talent. Our missions to serve as a bridge, connecting businesses with vast opportunities that lie in working with black professionals, entrepreneurs and enterprise. We strive to showcase the value, creativity and innovation that black talent brings to the table, fostering partnerships that drive economic growth, diversity and mutual success. Visit theblackricecom to find out more.

Speaker 1:

Hello everybody, welcome back to another episode on the Black rice podcast, the only podcast dedicated to really focusing on the stories of successful black leaders lead to normalize that you can achieve it too, and I think what's beautiful about all these amazing stories is that, as much as they've achieved success, they spend time telling your story, so you can really be inspired by this. Do you not feel that this is too far away from you? Every individual that I had on this podcast have had amazing journey, with ups and downs. Let me say, even in the downs there's so many lessons that we can learn. And today I am so pleased to bring a good friend of mine. We know each other for some time and it's interesting because I'm going to have a different approach to this. Like I don't know him. But if you don't know who, andy, I am, I have no idea where you've been. But let me tell you who he is and then we're going to go deep dive into his journey, to where he is right now and what he's doing and what is his vision, his mission and his purpose.

Speaker 1:

So, andy, I am the MBE, shall I say, a leading expert on investing in diverse founders in the modern world. He has been recognized as one of the leading voices on diversity in tech. So many things as a chief. I mentioned MBE as only one of his recognition, but also is beset on number of boards and your investment in the 17th startup. That's a lot. I don't know if I can ask you how much money you've been giving to these companies and how much you've been giving back. But, yes, also a short listed number of times, and I don't think I'm. I don't know how much space you have at home for all the awards that you've won. Where did you put them? Are you counting them, or are you still piling them? Or are they all in the box? Where are they In?

Speaker 2:

all honesty, I feel like when you get awards and rewards, it's often looking at a historical view of things that you did in the past. So I think when you're very present in what you're doing now, when you're really focused on the future, you're not often looking back in that same way. So I appreciate when I receive it, but I kind of have my feet firmly planted in the present to look forward at what I can achieve going forward and the impact that I can have.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's so funny because I remember it was last year. I was at the Biti Awards, black Tech Awards, and I did not expect to win. So I won the Black Entrepreneur Award and I'm not sitting for me Congratulations. Thank you so much, darling. I think what's funny for me is that this doesn't really get me excited, but I'm thinking like you, like, okay, why am I going to use that to do something else with it? So when I went on stage obviously I didn't prepare any speeches, like okay, I'm going to announce Black Rice, and I thought like this girl is literally just so cheeky. And the girl before me, she cried her eyes out. She was like oh, fluffy, and everything else. I'm like okay, well, just you guys, I'm launching Black Rice, so get on it.

Speaker 2:

I love it. But you know two things, though, to be honest. You just reminded me that is important. Is that one is that it's really important to have relevant role models, and awards helps to amplify that relevant role model, which is amazing. And I think the second thing is that for some people and this is not true for all people is a form of credibility that if that person has been recognized for this thing, there are trustworthy authority on that subject matter and, like I said, for some people that's what they believe. So I think it can play that role in a positive way to amplify a lot of the work that you do.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely. And again, you know, I said over time to my clients apply for awards. Some people are just brilliant at applying for awards for the same thing, so don't be afraid. Even just being nominated is a good starting point to just against something, build your credibility. But today it's about you. I don't want to talk so much about myself. It's about SEO podcast interview and Andy Iyim. I don't know why I like to say both your name, because your full name sounds so great, but I'm going to stick to Andy Nielow. I want to start from the beginning. I want to start from, and I love to start with, childhood upbringing. Tell us where you were born, where did you grow up, what family environment did you live in and also people that really influenced you when you were young.

Speaker 2:

These are great questions. To start with, so I'm a British born Ghanaian and that means that I grew up in the UK and not Ghana, even though both my parents originated from Ghana. So, with that actually as a backdrop, I always recognize from a young age that I had high potential and high access to opportunity because I inherited this privilege of being born in London. And a lot of my cousins and family members back home in Ghana had high potential but very low access to opportunities by no fault of their own, because they were born in Ghana. And I shared that as backdrop.

Speaker 2:

Because I guess, when I look at my family and the values that I've really understood from a young age was that gratitude around having access to opportunity and this magical phrase of like social capital, like if I build the right relationships in a place like London, is one of few cities in the world where you can really do this. I'll say New York, san Francisco, other places like that too. Your relationships with someone can lead you into a bridge or a doorway to new opportunity and as I share my story today, I think you'll see several references to people that I've met who've really paved the way and opened the door for me and it's probably why I feel this sense of responsibility around like really helping others, like us, into opportunities too. I almost have this responsibility, I guess, that I hold around social mobility and how can I help people with high potential but maybe low access to opportunity and gaining access to that opportunity and I love that work that I do today actually surrounding around that concept.

Speaker 1:

I love that you mentioned that element. One of my things is always be grateful and it's so important, whether you believe in God or not, but gratefulness is part of also building strong and healthy spirituality. Who you are with yourself but you know what you say that you understood the importance of being grateful and giving back. So, as a young age, how did you apply it?

Speaker 2:

as well? That's a great question. So I think at a very young age I was very insular in that you know where I was born in. Tottenham was like my world, so I play football there, I'd go to school there. A lot of my social networks were there.

Speaker 2:

A lot of my family were in and around the area, so I didn't really know, life beyond my postcode, if you like and the two people points that really broadened my horizon was first my dad was a cab driver, so he used to tell me about stories of all of his clients that were in his cab, from doctors to lawyers to all these diverse figures that were in incredible careers.

Speaker 2:

So it allowed me to raise my aspirations in terms of what I could potentially become. The second pivotal moment was when I graduated from university and I went to Brunel University and studied business management and accounting. I went for a one year experience where I was kind of like tamping and doing temporary work before my full-time job kicked in and I went backpacking across South America for three months and that was really pivotal for me because it opened my eyes to a new world and I realized that whether I read a book or travel on a plane, both are actually really correlated because they both open up my mind and introduced me to a new world and a new perspective, and I love that. It suddenly brought in my horizon to say that where I'm born in life doesn't dictate where I'm going to end up in life, and I think that was really, I guess, to kick up the bummer. I needed to think bigger and dream bigger in terms of aspirations and how to apply myself.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, do you know what's interesting? What you say is that I remember as well the first time I started really traveling and I realized that the world that I imagined was very different from my own reality. And I always say that the different people who have traveled enough would people travel and say, oh it's different, people don't travel. Now we say it's bizarre because they believe that their way is their way. And I think the more as you say like, the more you accustomed yourself for a new way of thinking, new way, new experiences, even if you're not leaving this, but hearing them.

Speaker 1:

The stories really influence what we shape and I think this is why it's so important to pay attention to what we consume, the information that we listen. When it comes to the news, I'm very mindful of those things, but I'm really focused on an obsessive learner. People know me as I'm always spending time in either taking new courses or I get something audiobook and so on. But this is really shaped what we become. But I think that really showcase for what you are now and your ability to as well do what you do, and it's so important to where we. I said Tottenham is probably not the most beautiful and romantic part of London.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, I say it's notorious. It's known for a lot of the wrong reasons.

Speaker 1:

Exactly that's so important. I say that over time, your past doesn't have to define your future. It's up to you to decide the path that you want to take. So you went to Brunel University and you chose to study accounting and say accounting and finance.

Speaker 2:

Yes, accounting and business management.

Speaker 1:

Can I ask you why you chose that? Because, obviously, for the story that you've learned from your father and the clients that he had, was it something? Was it because I think what was sometimes I hear is people choose a career because, like this, is easy for me to know that I will make money in safe job. Is that the reason why you chose this career?

Speaker 2:

I think like there's a stereotype, which is true, that a lot of you know African parents, asian parents often want their children to take stable careers and stable jobs and there's a lot of the same jobs right Engineering, going into medicine and being a doctor, a lawyer or an accountant. If we look historically at why that's really important is because our parents have taken the sacrifice of a life that they know in their home, in their home country, such as Ghana, and they've sacrificed that to come to a new land for a new opportunity, which is the UK. So they have a very survival mindset around. I just want to be able to provide for my family and give them a platform to do better. So from their perspective, which I really understand, is let me make sure that they get a stable education, because education is the doorway to opportunity.

Speaker 2:

So I took accounting as part of that narrative. The context matters because actually that led me to make what was at the time like a safe decision around a baseline skill that's actually useful to the world that my parents were aware of. What I didn't realize at the time was two things. One is that accounting is such an incredible foundation for business, because you really understand how businesses work, when you understand a balance sheet and a P&L, a profit and loss. The second thing I realized was that it was a good balance in my brain because naturally I loved human connection and humanitarian subjects.

Speaker 2:

When I look at my A-levels the college stage before you go to university I did history, theology and sociology and that plays into, I guess, a lot of my thirst and hunger for traveling to really foster human connection and meaningful connection, because I believe that none of us are born to be lonely beings. As humans, I think we're born to foster shared connection with others and actually when we look at businesses, they're just a collection of people that are aligned behind the mission and values to work collectively and delivering value to the world. So it's all around human connections. And the more I've even got into this world of work and entrepreneurship and scaling businesses and large businesses, what you notice is that, regardless of the size of the business, it all comes down to the ability for people to work well together or all of your problems are rooted in people's lack of ability to work well together.

Speaker 2:

So actually mastering that really human skill around human connection was really important for me and balancing that with the more analytical side of understanding how a business works together, because the two actually really go hand in hand. And even today, when I'm looking at founders and pitch decks and making decisions on who to invest in, a lot of that actually leads on the more humanitarian side of me, like look at the pros and cons, understanding the person behind the business, understanding the breadcrumbs in their story and their ability to tell their story Like all of that leads on the more humanitarian rather than the analytical brain before you make the investment and they grow and then you can start looking at the numbers and the business performance. So the two really go hand in hand. Actually looking back and I can see how connecting the dots has led me to where I am today.

Speaker 1:

Yes, I love the fact that you say that. First thing, relationships, and it's so important. People often undervalued the importance of building strong relationships. But also understanding beyond just the money, of numbers, and sometimes this is a danger of big enterprise. They look at the number, layoffs happen, they get rid of people and don't see the impact, especially people who have been in the company for 10 years, and they get rid of just because it doesn't add up with numbers and we need to cut off. Fair enough, this is the enterprise decision. But I'm curious from coming back to university, what has been your journey to your first job and also how was your journey into the real world? But also how have you been able to foster that human connection from the start, at the beginning of your career, if you have, or if you haven't, or it basically happened later on yes.

Speaker 2:

So human connection is at the heart of how I even got that first professional opportunity.

Speaker 2:

So when I was at university, I took something called a placement course, which means that you do one year in industry and in return to do your final year at university. And that one year in industry was pivotal for two reasons. The first is that I've got experience of what it's like to do accounting in a role and it taught me very quickly that it was quite routine and not the type of work that I wanted to do as a career. So I learned how to cross that off the list quite quickly and efficiently by doing that one year placement. The second thing that it taught me was about networking. So I was really attending networking events and at the time there was a network called the Interbank Multiracial Network. It was with the top investment banks and professional services firms and a lot of the black individuals within those firms.

Speaker 2:

And through that networking and attending those events with a friend of mine, dennis, who now lives out in LA, we met a friend who was essentially like a mentor to us, a guy called Francis Maynou who sadly passed away last year. But he was that one person, almost like a big brother, that I could ask all of my stupid questions to. What does M&A mean? What does transactional service mean? What does a management consultant do? What does private equity do? So he would translate all of that into easy to understand language for me, which helped inform what I wanted to go into as a career.

Speaker 2:

But he didn't stop there. As soon as I said that I wanted to get to management consulting, because I wanted to understand how businesses really fit together and function to make a profit or manage their costs right. How does sales fit together with finance, with HR, with product right? When I understood that, once going to that career, he introduced me to people who worked at Ernst Young and people who used to work there. Through those three or four conversations I learned the language, the rules of engagement and how I had to perform in order to get past the interview and assessment and secure that role. If not for his introductions, I would never have got that opportunity and got that job.

Speaker 1:

And the reason I say that Can I ask you a question how did you certain job you entered, but how did you understood the rule of engagement? What happened? Can you break it down a little bit for us so we understand, because people might be giving opportunities and they miss out as well?

Speaker 2:

Absolutely so. Every organization, especially in the professional services world, in finance, in the legal world, every organization has a language in which they speak. They often use acronyms, right, and NDA is a non-disclosure agreement and MVP is a minimal, viable product. A lot of this language would be very confusing unless someone translates it for you, so it's easy to understand. They also have a way of operating in these organizations. They have things called stakeholders. They have certain ranks like partners and directors and managers. They have these things called projects. They have a certain way in which they use tools such as Excel and PowerPoint. They have a way of thinking when it comes to problem solving as a management consultant.

Speaker 2:

Right, there's something called a star acronym, I think originally created by McKinsey, around situation, task, action and result. So all of these things you would never know out of common sense, but once someone explains it to you, you know how to use it when communicating with others, right? So it allowed me to package up my story, my experience and how I think in a way that they understood. In the same way, when a founder is pitching, there's certain language they know how to use around their problem, their vision, their team, how much they're raising, what they're using that money for prototypes, mvp. There's a language that the founder speaks, that they know, that it resonates with the investor. I've got this traction, I've got IP, I've got this mode, this defensibility right. So that's the language which really enables you to translate what you're doing in a way that's easy to understand to your audience, which, at that time, for me, was the interview and the organization I was trying to break into. I hope that detail makes sense.

Speaker 1:

Yes, it does. I think what you're saying here is it's important, when you're going to a conversation where you are unfamiliar, to understand the language, understand the lingo and all these abbreviations, say MVP, to NDA, to safe, whatever it is, and so forth. Don't go blind in any situation, and also, that's also a fantastic way to build your confidence, especially when you are young or inexperienced. But at least if you understand how people speak and I think what's important is that understand what people want. Most people go into business saying what they want, but if you can speak to what that person is after, then you get their attention. But also, if you're able to demonstrate for your way of speaking and speaking the way they, what they're after, then you're more likely as well to connect with those individuals, and that's super important.

Speaker 2:

And the other thing that I'll say to that point is that once you understand the rules of engagement and you get into the place, you don't have to perform. And what I realized when I got into Ernst Young is that I was performing very well in that environment. I was top quartile in terms of my performance in my two years there, and it really hit home that there's so many people like me from areas like where I'm from, like Tottenham in the UK, who don't have access to a mentor, like I did, and therefore don't get into this opportunity, even though if they were given the opportunity, they can do the job and do it well. And that's what got me started to think about this importance and I didn't have to learn good at the time but of diversity and inclusion and how can we widen representation, because I'm pretty confident there's a lot more people like me that can do this job, but they struggle to get into this environment.

Speaker 1:

So what did you do about it? Because, obviously that's a ha ha moment, so it's like okay, wait a minute, I am capable of doing this. Maybe from far I shouldn't be the only black person among, maybe just one of the many, in sort of. What can I do about it? Because, again, that's part of your understanding that if I achieve success, I can also open doors for someone else. So what did you do from that point?

Speaker 2:

So the beauty about growing up in Tottenham is that it's so multicultural that I wasn't at the time thinking about just black individuals. It was about the women, the people of color, some of the white people that all shared this thing called this working class status. Like we all had the same social economic background so we could relate to each other's backgrounds. So a lot of the times when I'm looking back now, I would always refer people that I knew into roles. So I referred people into roles at Ernst Young. I referred people into roles at my next two or three jobs after that and that was my way at the beginning of trying to democratize access.

Speaker 2:

And in the startup language, paul Graham from Y Company talks about doing things that don't scale, and that was my version of doing that. What little thing can I do that can make a difference? And I think sometimes people get overwhelmed with impact and scale and what they can do. But there's so much you can do from where you are starting where you are today, and that was my version of starting where I was back then. That's over 15 years ago.

Speaker 1:

I love it and I'll explain it in front. It's very common to do that where when you get into a business school and I don't know if they do that in the UK, but no in France if you get into a successful business school and then you get a job at Laissez-Neiky, it is required by anybody who's part of the same school to open the door for somebody else, whether you like it or not. So they're going to build those mechanisms and I love that. You did it naturally Like well, okay, well, if I'm here, let me see who else I can bring in. I think it's so powerful and not everybody has a natural sense of doing that, which is a good way to also create that no-call effect.

Speaker 1:

I think in business, don't always do something with the intention to get something back. Do it because it's right and something will miss out. The importance of just can I do something for you with no intention and if you don't get something from that person, something else might happen on the other side. Then the power of gratitude and also not gay keeping, which is a beautiful work you're doing. So you're not edged and young. Things are going really well, and you were talking about 15 years ago, so it's a long time.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it is more than that to me.

Speaker 1:

We're in that. So what has been your next career move after that?

Speaker 2:

I want to actually touch my next career move to something that you just mentioned. You just mentioned something about like just solving problems and not always thinking about monetizing or starting a business. And when I look at myself and a lot of entrepreneurs around me, it always starts with scratching your own itch and solving your own pain point or pain point around a community that you can really relate to. And when I was at Ernst Young, I wasn't festering and nurturing enough my entrepreneurial mindset and it frustrated me. So on the evenings and weekends, my brother, actually, and a few friends and I started a business called Mixed-Aid Madness. Oh, did you yeah?

Speaker 2:

it was a music technology business and that business is so. Premise was to create a central location online where we could consume this urban UK music that we loved, and at the time there was no Spotify and no iTunes again showing my age so it's very difficult to get this music from one place online. You had to usually visit a number of different places online to get access to this music that you loved. So we started that business essentially for ourselves. Right Like this is a problem we suffer from and it's inconvenient and it's annoying, and then we create a landing page to see how many others would be interested in this too. And again, when you're from working class backgrounds, there's a default to be resourceful. I can't afford to just build all of this technology. I need to somehow build a little bit and prove out that it's the man to justify we continue to build this technology. It's actually an asset. It's actually a positive thing to have that mindset, and the reason I say that is because a lot of the times when you're from places like Tottenham, you hear the negative side of coming from that area, but not enough people share about the transferable skills that you possessed because you were nurtured in those areas. This is one of those examples.

Speaker 2:

The idea came from being nurtured in that area. The approach to building slowly and iteratively came from being resourceful and not being wasteful with money and therefore with capital efficient. So all of these benefits came, in terms of my transferable skillset, from growing up in that area, and I guess one of my superpowers over time I realized now is that I'm very good at looking at transferable skills and transferable opportunities. That is a problem in this space, but we can solve it using a solution that's in this adjacent space that has nothing to do with this, and that's something I look at as a common theme with a lot of the ideas that I've surfaced and even now as I run the age and investment school.

Speaker 2:

Today, again, it was it's that I had to scratch because I felt like it was so opaque, it's hard to get the financial literacy, it's hard to understand how to get started investing into startups, and there's so many points of failure across that journey which lead people to make bad decisions and invest more money than they could afford to lose into businesses that they don't even truly understand. So again, it's my own personal frustration. Then I learned that others had the same frustration too, and it led to what was initially a project but turned into a business, which is the age and investment school. Can I ask?

Speaker 1:

you two questions and I think that, against everything I'm listening to, what you're saying is two things. Sometimes I say we come from a low social economy background, we are very resourceful and maybe I feel anytime. What is your opinion on this? I think it's great, but also sometimes can prevent us from looking for help when it's necessary. So you will hear quite often that a lot of business from again from low social economy backgrounds will bootstrap. They don't honestly think about a loan because sometimes it's not accessible, or looking for an angel investment.

Speaker 1:

Maybe, again, it might not be a business that's designed for that, but do you think sometimes that this mindset we have of being resourceful stop us from actually taking the capital which is necessary to take our idea much further? So, again, coming back to your idea, you could have been imagine, which was a brilliant idea. I think you did it before Spotify, if you did to be a posture, have a brilliant idea. Now, technically, it's the MVP. Let me see if I can get external capital so I can take this really, really big. So that's the thing that I'm thinking when I'm listening to you and I'm leaving this open for us to really think about this. I've got a perspective on that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you do. Go on then.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. I'll say two things. The first is that I think what is stifles is sometimes a poverty of ambition or limited, restricted ambition. So, instead of dreaming big and thinking big, it's hard to do that when you haven't been exposed to much, because you don't know how big this can be. So you struggle to think about funding, you struggle to think about what global means, because maybe you haven't experienced global, maybe you haven't traveled internationally, maybe you haven't worked in an international company. So it's hard sometimes to think in that way when you haven't been to those places, especially when in the media is not reinforced that people like you do things like this.

Speaker 2:

The second thing that I'll say is that you haven't got access sometimes to the networks. So, for example, when I started this music technology business, if I had access to Daniel Ech, the founder of Spotify, I probably would have applied as a product manager to help grow the products from an early stage, because I was passionate about it and I was actually building something adjacent. I don't need to be the entrepreneur, I'm in love with the problem and solving it. You see, and the same is true for fundraising For a lot of these founders from our backgrounds?

Speaker 2:

they don't have networks to angel investors or friends and family who are wealthy or even venture capitalists, so it becomes hard for them to imagine how they could raise capital Right. So that education gap is quite steep. And then that network that you need to build actually is often brand new and starting from scratch. So sometimes those are the barriers that inhibit us from thinking bigger and raising our aspirations, and able to even raise capital and go in that direction.

Speaker 1:

I love that Raising aspiration is fueled by curiosity curiosity hidden behind the desire to meet new people and network but also cultivate and educate ourselves. We all live in a bubble. We also think that we have an objective view of the world. Nobody has right. So if tomorrow I was in America, I have a different view of the world and that bubble sometimes needs to expand. We need to blow it, actually, if we can. So continuously cultivating curiosity. If we listen to this podcast right now, how do you think they can cultivate a curious mind that will help them not only educate themselves or thinking outside the box Actually, I don't like this word thinking outside the box but educate themselves, but also continuously build a network? How can you build a curious mindset when you come from a low social economy background?

Speaker 2:

You need to tap into the inner you in your childlike state, and what I mean by that is like these days, when I go to a networking event, everyone shares their shiny story Hi, my name is this and this is my job title and here's where I work. But our common strands in terms of human connection isn't formed from that. It's formed from us being unshiny and sharing more of who we are. If you ask a child to tell me about yourself, that child will go in every weird and wonderful direction. You know I love lollipops, I love watching Nickelodeon, I love this and I love that, and I'm really good at skipping and I love to dance. Do you want to dance? The kid will be so expansive in how they see themselves.

Speaker 2:

Whereas adults, because we've been socialized and gone through this education system and society is telling us that we need to be one thing, we suddenly start being a more restricted version of ourselves and in doing so, it becomes harder to foster human connection and therefore to work alongside people in a highly productive team, actually. So what happens is that, like as a consequence of that, we're less of ourselves rather than more of ourselves. So it doesn't become natural to feed your curiosity. Instead, a lot of us think about feeding out our careers, our promotion, our status and who we're becoming, rather than thinking more around the inner work, around who are we? What is our skill set? What am I interested in? Where am I curious? Where do I naturally lose time because I'm so into something, which is where we really need to pay attention. One of the quotes that my late mentor shared with me is that your skill set is your safety net, but you'll never know what your safety net is if you haven't spent time really reflecting on your skill set, which is that intersection of what am I great at, how do I love to serve the world and actually, what do people give me feedback about? And these are the things that are actually really helpful in terms of the feedback loop on your curiosity.

Speaker 2:

So I keep a journal, and a journal is really helpful for me because I can look back and connect dots to understand where did my curiosity lead me to. So, when I spoke about backpacking, for example, and going to South America, because I kept a journal I can connect the dots and understand where my curiosity led me to and what I learned into the lessons. I understand what drained my energy and what brought me more energy. I understand how I could reduce the things that drained my energy and do more of the things that gave me energy. But you can only get the analytical view of yourself if you start retracting where your curiosity is leading you to. We're all naturally curious, but we have to pay attention to where our curiosity leads us to. I know that's a very left-field answer to what you probably heard before, but that's, I guess, like what's really worked for me, and I think it could work for some others too.

Speaker 1:

As we continue this engaging conversation, remember that Black Rise is more than just a podcast. Where dynamic platform where businesses can connect, collaborate and prosper with black professionals, entrepreneurs and black-owned companies. Our commitment to diversity, inclusion and empowerment reshapes industries and builds a future where black excellence thrives globally. So don't forget to subscribe and give us a five-star review on iTunes. We are in an alignment because when you talk about the importance of looking within yourself and also journaling, journaling is something that I wish more people would do and also understand the power of it. It's something that is very soothing and people really underestimate the importance of taking time with yourself and self-reflecting. I have a story that I haven't told anybody and I started doing this for and again, it's not published anyway, but I started reflecting about my journey and it's interesting because when I started writing my story for me 8 of 16 and so on and so on I had a very much overview of myself, as if I was looking at myself, but also looking at myself making the mistakes, but also thinking that I probably didn't see at that point, and it's a situation that can get you very emotional, but it is necessary if you want to be the goal of who we are. So I love that. I mean, this is great conversation. I love it. Let's get people, let's get deeper people so they can understand how far they can go.

Speaker 1:

Coming back to your career, so where are we? I come from where we are. There were the points where you are in investment. You get some good advice, you get introduced to the right people. You started your journey as an entrepreneur, so you understand that step as well. What has happened back in the professional ladder?

Speaker 2:

Okay so, looking at the next step of my journey, I joined a really entrepreneurial management consultancy. So I left a really big organization of Ernst Young and joined a really small one called Elixir.

Speaker 1:

Can I ask you why you joined a smaller company?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, two reasons. The first because I wanted somewhere where I could be more hands-on and help with building a business, because it could tap into my entrepreneurial mindset and I knew that I could be more of myself and use more of my skills. When you're in a big, established place like Ernst Young, it's quite defined the type of role that you have to pick up and the kind of career trajectory is defined for you. The second reason at the time was because just before that experience, sadly my father had passed away. So I wanted to get back to the first principles, that what I'm good at and what I enjoy, but also that intersection of that entrepreneurial mindset that I want to unlock. So being in an entrepreneurial small management consultancy where I could help to build a business was perfect for me so I can lean on those skills that I gained from EY but lean on that entrepreneurial mindset that I had. So I came to this environment and very soon I moved to South Africa and I started working with some of their financial services clients in Johannesburg, like Investec Bank, let's say, absa Barclays, standard Bank, working on a lot of digital and transformation projects and strategy projects. And then they saw my entrepreneurial ambition at the firm and they created a unique opportunity for me to go out with a partner to set up their new business out in San Francisco.

Speaker 2:

So I ended up moving to San Francisco in 2015, developing relationships, again human connection, with venture capitalists out there. So Andreessen Horowitz, greylock Partners, sequoia Capital and Lightspeed Ventures and that was like a fast track MBA into venture capital. It taught me about the industry. I saw all these plaques on the wall of companies they invested in, from eBay to Google to YouTube All these incredible businesses I remember even at Lightspeed Ventures they mentioned how they incubated the Snapchat team a year ago in the room opposite where I was sitting. So I was learning an incredible amount of information because of the access that I had to these individuals.

Speaker 2:

But the other thing that was really noticeable was that everyone that I was speaking to was essentially a white, middle-class man.

Speaker 2:

All of the partners who were really wealthy and invested in into the founders and entrepreneurs who were shaping the future of the world that we were living in was a really narrow network of middle-class white men. I saw no black partners and I saw one Asian man who was a partner at the time and I saw one woman and she was a principal, not a partner. So the lack of diversity was evident to me, because I've got this picture in my head of where I grew up in Tottenham versus this picture in my head of the environment that I was now in. And I immediately thought to myself that it's not fair that actually these few people get to decide on who gets to play the game of being an entrepreneur and scaling their business. And I just thought immediately that there should be a more representative pool of people making that decision and I think it will lead to a more representative pool of people accessing that capital. And that's where my journey started into this space of, I guess, equity and fairness in the technology sector.

Speaker 1:

So that was in 2015. Yeah, that everything changed for you, it was an a-ah moment. Wow, it must be, especially in San Francisco, I can imagine, you know. At the same time, I'm not very surprised when you hear this and again something comes back to us and the awareness of what have the potentials out there. I feel like it gets to be like people. You know people will probably obviously gatekeeping, but again, if you come from a lost show background, you're probably not aware of that and you having a new perspective, new universe that you've entered, we're able to take it back to the population. So how long do you stay in San Francisco before you come back? Did you come back to the UK or you went somewhere else? I can make the assumption that you came back to the.

Speaker 2:

UK, yeah, yeah. So I stayed in San Francisco for just under a year and I came back to the UK because I was. I really want to gain operator experience. I want to gain the experience that a lot of people are talking about, about being a founder or working in a high growth startup and the pressure of doing, of being in that environment. So I'm joined the scale up called World First, which is a foreign exchange business, and I was like the first product manager there and that business ended up being acquired by Ad Financial for $700 million. So I experienced that high growth environment and eventually that business went on to exit just after I left. And it was an incredible experience because by that time I had worked in a large corporate in San Yonge. I'd worked in an intrapreneurial role at Elixir, building that new business out in San Francisco. I'd been an entrepreneur myself with Mixed-A-Madness and now I've worked in a high growth scale up, which was this experience that I had working in World First.

Speaker 1:

And the difference between working in the very established enterprise and then working in a startup, which is, I think, goes really fast. What did you enjoy the most and what was the good and the bad of each for you?

Speaker 2:

To be honest with the large environment. Like us in Yonge, you learn a lot of good best practice stakeholder management, email etiquette. You know being proficient on tools such as Excel and PowerPoint, communication skills like how to sell, how to manage relationships with clients. I gained all of those skills In Elixir. I learned how to build a business right, how to have courage, how to take risk, how to define new offerings, how to do business development. I learned a lot of those skills In being an entrepreneur myself. I learned the skill of going from zero to one, iterative development, customer testing right, product management, user experience, building a business, understanding the importance of profit, understanding the importance of building a sustainable business right.

Speaker 2:

In being in a scale up, I learned that the skills that you might have when you join the company will look very different to the skills that are needed to scale the business, and some people can grow to that and some people get lost because it's out of their depth.

Speaker 2:

You may need a different person, different phases of scale, and that's a really brutal lesson to learn because it's like single swim.

Speaker 2:

You can imagine being hired as a junior and being asked to become a manager in two or three years, and do you have the capability, have you been coached, have you been supported enough to grow into that role, or actually do we need to hire someone that already comes with that experience?

Speaker 2:

So there's a lot of that tension of new and old as you go through that scale up period and there's a lot of pain there, which is where the people skills and a lot of the human connection work that I do today really feeds into, because that's such a pivotal moment for a company as a scale and it also taught me about the value of equity and investment.

Speaker 2:

So when I started my own business, I had no awareness of ancient investor and venture capital in this world, of raising capital to leverage it to build technology and scale your business. When I got into the world first, I learned quickly actually, the incentive of having equity to give to employees, about growing with equity and understanding the growth trajectory that you need to meet in order to fulfill and make a return through investors. So I learned a lot about how that VC side that I learned about in San Francisco feels like once you're on the inside of a startup as an operator. So you can see there's a lot of pros and lessons that I took from each environment and I think it really fed into now my unique perspective and experience that I have working at different aspects of scale.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you've seen both sides, so you kind of know and it gets to think it's a different type of perspective. When you establish business, it takes much time to grow, but also the risk involves is much larger, where, with a startup again something people are much more agile, faster and so on. So you have against something that I've seen many times, where people get given a position of manager but they have no understanding of leadership, which is which can also break a business if you don't put the right people in the right seats. And even just you know for me that I've always been frightened about the idea of having a co -founder. So many stories and people have just lost everything because of that. And that's what we, wise, were. I've just gone solo in my post. You, you know, starting a business. So where are we now? Are we the point we're not even a point where you launched the school of angel investors, right, we're not even there, are we? No, we're not.

Speaker 2:

We're almost there. We're almost there, Okay. So so after that experience, I get headhunted into a venture capital organization called Backstage Capital. Oh, I didn't know you were headhunted, I didn't know. So the unique thing with Backstage. I say headhunted, I can share the longer story. I guess I interviewed the founder of Backstage Capital, arlen Hamilton, for a podcast and I never released a podcast. It was called Technicity, never brought out.

Speaker 1:

You're asking why you never released a podcast. The story will make sense.

Speaker 2:

Okay, oh, I wait. So I end up inviting her off the back of our conversation to the UK because a lot of what she shared on the podcast, I believe, was a shared inequality that we have here in the UK which relates to what she was doing in the US. And, for context, arlen Hamilton is a gay black woman from the US, so her investment thesis was to invest into underrepresented founders the founders who are LGBTQIA women or people of color. So it resonated with me on a social mobility and a values level. So I invited her into the UK. I introduced her to the ecosystem so academics, general partners, investors who are limited partners into VC funds, angel investors, founders and we do a number of public and private events and in one of the private meetings that we had a VC firm here in UK around the table she said he doesn't know it yet, but I want to make Andy the managing director of my new accelerator business, which at the time was an idea that she had. So I joined her to build a blueprint for launching an accelerator program globally in Detroit, philadelphia, la and, of course, in London, and we raised about 2.5 million for that and we invested into 25 founders and ran that accelerator program, which was an incredible experience, but in doing that process, it taught me two really important things.

Speaker 2:

The first was that a lot of the founders that we're backing had that commonality that I spoke about at the beginning of this podcast in terms of coming from lower social economic backgrounds and therefore lacked access to the network of experienced entrepreneurs, of experienced investors, so they found it hard, as a consequence, to close their funding route.

Speaker 2:

So inspired me to think about what can I do about that?

Speaker 2:

And that led me, in turn, to start the Angel Investing School, which was designed to help become, like that, friends and family around for a lot of these founders, because the whole premise behind the Angel Investing School is to influence who gives and gets investment.

Speaker 2:

So you want to democratize access to Angel Investing so that people from all backgrounds can learn how to get started with investing into startups, and over the last three years, we've trained almost 600 people on how to get started investing into startups through a number of public and private programs that we run with corporates such as Google. One of our success stories to date was trading over 100 black Googlers who launched a black angel group and have invested over $4 million to date into over 30 startups, which shows the activation of the back of our education, and this year we want some radical, exciting new plans to open source a lot of our best learnings to make it even more accessible, easy to understand and simple for anyone anywhere to get started with their journey on becoming angel investors, as well as founders actually learning how to fundraise from angels, as a real gap in the market in terms of knowledge.

Speaker 1:

Do you know what's funny when I hear that story and I also think about I don't know why people are not thinking about investment. I mean, it's a different way of investing properties. Stock whatsoever I think it's a very low proportion, especially in the black community, people who rather put money in not even an ISA account, just a saving account. But I haven't just look at investment as another way to really build their wealth, and so I'm really keen as well. Part of BlackRise is to and again, I'm not talking about the black community I really want people to understand the importance of passing on wealth as part of your legacy, instead of passing on debt. But in your views, when it comes to these two sides to angel investment, there's people, obviously, who are the angel investors and the other side, people who are looking for the investment. So my question to you is people who have then considered angel investment, which we know it's risky I've heard it somebody say that the other day I laughed which is friends, family and fools.

Speaker 1:

I was like what Do you want to say that? And the other side as well? For the amazing people who are like me, who are crazy enough to start entrepreneurship or on a business or startup. What advice can you give them when it comes to choosing the right angel investors? And then for people. Maybe I should break down into two questions. So two questions. Essentially is for people who haven't thought about angel investment, why they should need to be aware of and what are the opportunities behind that and people to be mindful. Again, I always say that not every money is good money. Be mindful about choosing the right angel investors or they shouldn't be so bothered at the beginning.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So I'll answer both of those questions. The first is the reason that people should really be aware and understand angel investing is because angel investors are at the core of any thriving startup ecosystem, because they provide that first capital, that first investment into early stage businesses. And those early stage businesses are the very businesses that are shaping the world that we live in today. So you think of some of your favorite brands Apple, youtube, google they all took early angel investment. Instagram, facebook, the list goes on Snapchat, tiktok they all had angel investors that helped them get off the ground of their idea. So if you want to shape the world that we live in, if you want to meet fascinating people doing incredible things, angel investing is an incredible opportunity.

Speaker 1:

Can I talk to you and if you're sometime like angel investment is more of a community, you give with a low chances of return and probably be aware that mindset, that well, I'm doing it because I like you. So for me I'm going to be super transparent with you. I've been an angel investor and I've given with really low chance, nothing that I don't believe in that person. But whether that person makes it or not, I just want to support you.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. That's exactly part of what I'm saying. And angel investor is never your primary source of income. You're not banking on it to supply you financially. See, every single angel investor I know is either a business owner or generating means through being a consultant or working in a job. It's never your primary source of income. So no one should be banking on this angel investment to make them their returns. In fact, you should only invest what you can afford to lose. That's what we always teach. However, if you do have access to incredible founders and you can make a difference and go on these incredible journeys, if you build a broad enough portfolio, there is a chance that you could make some incredible returns. It's hard really to do only one or two investments, but actually, statistically, when you make 15 to 20 investments, you're hiding the probability that you could invest into businesses that can make your return. But it comes down to access. Do you have access to those great entrepreneurs? And venture capital actually is all really about access To your second question you asked two questions.

Speaker 2:

For an entrepreneur, it is vital that they're really thoughtful about who they invite to come along this journey with them. For the angel investor, it should be seen as a privilege to be invited to go along this journey because this founder has taken all of the risk in starting this business, growing this business, spending each day of their lives, doing their life work, and it's a privilege for us to have an outside view and to support in them. We're not taking the risk. They are taking the real risk. We are not creating the value. They are creating all of the value. So we need to be a bit humble about that and allow for that to be the truth. The second thing that I'll say is that it's sadly, easier to get a divorce than to get a VC investor, for example, off your cap table. So you need to be really thoughtful about who I'm going to spend the next decade with in terms of this relationship, work and relationship if they invest in my business. So you need to be picky and choosy and not desperate, around who you're taking capital from and who you're inviting along this journey with. Are you asking other founders for feedback on these investors? Are you understanding the other investments that they've made? If you're looking for someone that's really supportive, do you understand actually their ability to add value in their skillset and their networks?

Speaker 2:

If you're looking for armchair investors, do you understand whether there's someone that will let you get on with running your business and not get in your way?

Speaker 2:

Are they going to be an admin burden for you and always bugging you and emailing you and asking you for reports and actually slowing you down from spending time with your customers, your products and your people? Like fundraising is one of the biggest Achilles' Hill for founders because it takes you away from the thing you love, which is actually building your business. So it's a really conscious decision you have to make to go on fundraising because you're also giving away equity and ownership into your business, which is your baby. And for those founders that truly value what they're building and believe in the future of what they're building, they should want to guard and protect their equity with their life, because you want to believe in the future value of that equity only growing more and more, because you believe they're going to succeed. So it's always a red flag when I see founders giving away equity cheaply. To me, it means that they don't really believe in the future value of that equity that they're giving away.

Speaker 1:

That's so true. You see something that is so valuable, and I want to say definitely get a lawyer, because I think one thing that I've heard a lot is that people against something in that rush where you again, desperation leads quite often to mistakes, and I feel sometimes like the idea of startup is like you have to go fast, fast, fast, fast, fast, fast, like no, I think often you need to step back a little bit. When I hear your story about your first entrepreneurship journey, when you launch your music business, test the idea, build your awareness, build a and again this is probably me being the marketer build your working list before you even spend loads of money and take money from the wrong person, and I've seen it so many times and that's why I'm so particular and, again, be an avid person of learning from others. How did that happen? What did you do on this? What did that person do? How did it work out? Again, as you say, like the person you're going to spend a lot of time with, you have to be aligned and for me, I know that I want to make sure that you're not just giving money, but you actually contribute and believe in the idea. You don't see this as a quick way to make a return. So that's really really important and like that, and can we talk?

Speaker 1:

I wanted to talk a bit more about why, now, the school of the school of angel investors. I'm not saying in rise society, school of angel investors, right, angel investing or angel investor? I'm terrible. Angel investing school, angel investing school. So, yeah, I'm saying rise to people. You can Google it, google angel investing school. Don't listen to Flavilla and tell us how did that happen and did we miss an episode before that point, first of all and you mentioned where you are right now and also why do we also want people to learn about your upcoming plans for the future? Don't give us mood. I'm not talking about date, because this is content that I would be there for a long time, but what is your vision of the future for angel investing school To?

Speaker 2:

achieve our mission of democratizing access to angel investing, we need to make it widely available and accessible so that anyone, anywhere, can consume our content and feel confident and know exactly how to get started with investing to startups right.

Speaker 2:

They'll know how to shape their investment thesis. They'll know their primary motivation behind why they're investing. They'll know how to source and find great entrepreneurs. They'll know how to do due diligence. They'll know all of the key legal documents and key terms that they need to know in order to invest. If they're in the UK, they'll understand the tax relief that's available to them. They'll understand how they can leverage their skill set and their network to support entrepreneurs.

Speaker 2:

They'll understand the core curriculum that we've mastered over the last three years and tested with companies such as Google with great results. They'll get access to all of that in a free and accessible way. So I'm not going to share any dates, but just look out for our next campaign this year, in 2024, the year of this recording, which really shares more around this campaign and platform that we're building. I'm really excited about it because I think it's going to do the world of good in really closing the education gap for both founders and aspiring angel investors alike. I think exactly what this ecosystem needs and I think people are going to love it.

Speaker 1:

Yes, I think, as you say, the first step to starting your journey to an angel investment is educate yourself. Don't rush this. This is something that you have to believe in, something, I think understanding what you want to invest in, whether you care about the environment, whether you care about diversity. Choose something that you're really passionate about and you will find the networks, you will find the startups you care about and, again, you can really go for it. It will make your life much easier so you don't have to spend a lot of time researching. But I think part of that journey, as you say yourself, is education. Remove all the preconceived ideas that you have about it and have an open mind. This is the thing that I love doing. This podcast is that get out that bubble, burst that bubble, explore a new world by listening to those stories so you can think differently. All point of this is to be wire your mindset so you can remove the bias that you are putting in front of your opportunities waiting for you, and that's so important, you know, for me.

Speaker 1:

People say the sky is the limit. I say what do you mean? The sky? There's no limit at all. Whatever you want, you put your mind into it, you can achieve it. What is the line between you and I? And is that we try and people to build something that means something more than money. It's not. You know, when you're creating something, money is never the end of us, the line of success. People always use money as a metric of success. But, beyond that, what do you want to create? What impact do you want to leave behind? What do you want to contribute to? If it's not knowledge, if it's not money, how can you contribute? I think that's so important and that fulfillment for me is so rich and I know that I am rich and I know that you are rich too like doing something that really means something, and that's why I love talking to you, andy, and you've been.

Speaker 1:

I think people what people don't know that when I opened Global Tech Advocates Black Home in Tech, we used to be called Techland and Ethical Launch. Do you remember? I'm rich. I'm like, andy, I need you. I was like what is it? And you come up and I remember and you are among the people who are there for us and this is so important that, against something like, don't necessarily do something with the intention of getting back. Do because it is right Do, because what you bring to the table is your story and you never know if you can inspire one person and God knows how many people you really inspire, andy, because when I look at individuals, before I started Black Rise or DTA, black Home in Tech, you were among those individuals that say, wow, I like what he's doing, let me see I can add to the ecosystem, let me see I can contribute to it, and that's what it's about. So be ready.

Speaker 1:

Black Rise will definitely I haven't told you that, andy, but definitely Black Rise will collaborate with the Angel Investing School because we really want to change the space for the black community and beyond. You know, this space is not just, yeah, this space is for us and beyond us, so we can really build an economy beyond that. So that's a great. I enjoy interviewing you. I want to ask you a last question, and this is a question for people listening to this podcast. What questions do you think push to ask themselves to be more fulfilled with their life?

Speaker 2:

I think one question that's really profound for me is or it's more scenario Like if you're on your deathbed, you're not going to alter your smartphone, you're not going to alter your laptop, you're not even going to alter your investments You're going to alter for more time with your loved ones. So what can you do today, proactively, to really make sure that you're spending more time with your loved ones, because that correlates with your happiness? Don't wait until that moment when you're on your deathbed. Don't wait until you've lost them because you were serving just your career instead as your primary source. Make the people that are your loved ones with you, your family and friends the center of your universe and let everything else revolve around that, rather than, for a lot of people, you can work as the son of their universe.

Speaker 1:

Love that. I don't think I could have said anything else better than this. Andy, it was such a pleasure to have you on this episode on the BlackRest podcast. I'm sure we want to be connected with you. Tell us how we can connect with you here. More about angel investing scroll and get involved. Tell us more.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, sure, so I'm at ndamcom. You can also find me on LinkedIn. I have a weekly newsletter, which I release, which are more about my personal musings, personal development, reflections and journey of me as an investor, entrepreneur and human, if you like. So it's the best place to find out more about what I'm doing, who I'm doing it with, and upcoming events and stuff that I'm involved in too. But generally, if people got value from this, I want them to encourage others to listen to this podcast. It's an incredible platform and I think it makes a difference, even if one person hears this today and feels that it can relate to it or speak to them. So thank you for that.

Speaker 1:

No, thank you, Andy. Your soul is so pure and I really enjoyed this conversation. It's definitely on my top three. You're not allowed to say that. I want to say it because I meant it honestly and I meant it in words. People say that I'm a flatterer, but I'm going to say something that always comes from my heart for all our listeners. I hope that you enjoy listening to this podcast. Put it on repeat, make sure to look at the description. We're going to put the link to what Andy just shared and I hope to see you on the next episode. And don't forget to subscribe, and I will see you very soon. Bye, everybody.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for joining us on this episode of Black Rise. We hope that you found this conversation as inspiring as we did. Share your takeaways on social media and tag us as we wrap up. Remember that you can always stay connected with us. Join us on this journey of elevation, motivation and empowerment. Let's rise together, break barriers and create lasting change. Subscribe now to stay updated with our latest episodes and visit theblackrisecom to find out more. This is Black Rise, where excellence and impact converge to redefine the future. Until next time, keep rising.