Black Rise
Welcome to Black Rise podcast, your gateway to inspiring conversations with the crème de la crème of Black talent, leaders of 7-figure and above businesses across a spectrum of industries. Your host is Flavilla Fongang, an award-winning serial entrepreneur and she will be your guide on this journey.
Black Rise isn't just a podcast; it's an extension of the first business platform dedicated to connecting the business world to talented, skilled and experienced Black talent. Our aim is to create connections, foster collaboration, and fuel growth by bringing together Black professionals, visionary entrepreneurs, and groundbreaking businesses. We're here to bridge the networking gap, facilitating collaborative growth not only within the Black community but also far-reaching into the broader world.
In each episode, we dive deep into the stories and experiences of our remarkable guests. They share their insights, challenges, and strategies that have propelled them to the pinnacle of success. Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur, a seasoned professional, or simply hungry for knowledge and inspiration, Black Rise provides you with the tools and motivation you need to reach your own pinnacles of achievement.
But we're more than just a podcast. We're a dynamic community where excellence knows no bounds. When you subscribe to 'Black Rise,' you're not just gaining access to incredible stories—you're also opening doors to exclusive opportunities within our thriving ecosystem.
Join us on this journey of elevation, motivation, and empowerment. Let's rise together, break barriers, and create lasting change. Subscribe now to stay updated with our latest episodes and visit www.theblackrise.com to connect, collaborate, and embark on a transformative path to success.
This is Black Rise, where excellence and impact converge to redefine the future.
Black Rise
How To Forge A Path To Leadership In Corporate Finance - Toyin Odutayo's Inspiring Journey
Have you ever pondered the nuanced dance between leadership and management? Toyin Odutayo, a financial virtuoso with a kaleidoscope of experiences, joins us to unravel this mystery, offering a beacon of wisdom on empowering those around us. His journey is a narrative rich with lessons from being raised in a large family and the international insights of a diplomat's child, all funneling into his ascent within the finance realm. Toyin's story is not just a chronicle of his own growth but a resonating call for nurturing authentic leadership, where coaching others through their errors becomes a stepping stone rather than a hurdle.
This episode's dialogue with Toyin spins a captivating yarn around the strategic pursuit of education for career advancement. His commitment to learning is both a personal quest for knowledge and a calculated move to cement his standing in the financial industry. From the halls of Yabba College of Technology to the esteemed corridors of Alliance Manchester Business School, Toyin's academic arsenal is impressive. But beyond degrees and certificates, he opens up about the subtle pressure to amass qualifications as a shield from professional skepticism, sharing candid reflections on how his passion for continued education and development extends beyond personal achievement.
Finally, Toyin's insights into climbing the career ladder, whether in the bustling markets of Nigeria or the competitive finance sector of the UK, offer a masterclass in resilience. We traverse the importance of soft skills, the criticality of networking, and the strategic shifts that can catapult one from an entry-level position to their dream role, even through the daunting restraints of 'local experience.' Toyin's narrative underscores the profound impact of a positive work environment on mental health and professional success, alongside the indomitable power of faith and self-belief. Join us for an episode that is not just enlightening but a heartfelt call to action for emerging leaders to chase their dreams with conviction and grace.
Experience Business Differently
Black Rise is not just a podcast but an extension of our Business platform. We are on a mission to bridge the gap between businesses and the immense potential of Black talent. We provide a dynamic platform where businesses and individuals can connect, collaborate, and prosper with Black professionals, entrepreneurs, and black-owned companies. We strive to showcase the value, creativity, and innovation that Black talent brings to the table, fostering partnerships that drive economic growth, diversity, and mutual success.
Register now for early access and join a community of trailblazers. Get exclusive features, connect with like-minded individuals, and elevate your journey with Black Rise. Don't miss out—click the link below to secure your spot!
Click here to find out more
you know we're all going to make mistakes. But if you make a mistake and you're being put down, you know you're being looked down upon, you're being casted down upon because you've made a mistake. I mean, you know, come on. So I would have thought in that kind of you know, you would. You would lift that person up and say, okay, you know what. You've made this mistake, this is how you do it next time. You know you treat the person, you coach the person, you bring the person up. That's what leadership is all about. You know there's a difference between being a manager and being a leader.
Speaker 2:They're two different things. Welcome to the Black Rice podcast, your getaway to inspiring conversation with la crème de la crème of Black talent, who are leaders of seven-figure and above businesses across a spectrum of industries. I'm your host, flavilla Fong-Gang, an award-winning serial entrepreneur, who will guide you on his journey. Black Rise isn't just a podcast. It's an extension of our business platform, allowing the business world to connect with skilled, talented and experienced Black talent. Our mission is to serve as a bridge, connecting businesses with vast opportunities that lie in working with Black professionals, entrepreneurs and enterprise. We strive to showcase the value, creativity and innovation that Black talent brings to the table, fostering partnerships that drive economic growth, diversity and mutual success. Visit theblackrisecom to find out more.
Speaker 2:Hello everyone, welcome back to another episode on the Black Rise podcast. Thank you so much for listening to these conversations. I would like, if you could tell me, maybe message me and tell me what has been your most amazing conversation so far. I mean, I give you the best la crème de la crème, even the black leaders that you probably know, don't know about or you're discovering, and I'm so excited to have so many more on my list and please, if you know any great leaders that you want me to interview, please reach out to me and make sure that I reach out to them so we can do that. But today I am so excited to bring again I'm going to explain the financial mogul.
Speaker 2:I mean, maybe he's more than that, but let me introduce you to Toyin Odutayo. Toyin is a vice president and business line anti-financial crime, corporate finance, trust and agency services and security services lead for UK and Ireland at one of the largest global financial institutions. That you sure would know, and if you want to find out more, you can go on his LinkedIn profile, but we're going to keep that secret for now. Right, and I'm so excited to do this conversation with Torin because we've been speaking and I love he's so humble. I think what I love a lot about the leaders that I have on these conversations on the Black Lives podcast they're so humble but at the same time, they achieve so much and don't often realize how much they can inspire the next generation or the present generation, so they can dream to achieve a certain level of success. So, toyin, it's such a pleasure to have you. How are you?
Speaker 1:I'm fine, thank you, not bad. I'm doing great, I'm feeling great, and how are you yourself?
Speaker 2:I am good thank you for asking obviously very delighted to have this conversation with you, because I know that we can learn a lot from you, from your career, and this is about your career. We don't want to get so much into details in terms of what you do, but more in terms of what did you do to get to where you are right now and such a successful, especially when, in a world where we don't, we don't have so many c-suites for one of the largest financial institutions, and you are one of them. But before we get to that point, I feel like we should start from the beginning. So tell us about your childhood. Where did you grow up? Are you a single child? Are you from a big family? Who influenced you when you were young? Was it family members? Was it brothers and sisters? Was it friends, uncles, or maybe a stranger? What? Who are the first inspiration, the first driver of your life?
Speaker 1:Well, thank you very much for that question. I am the second born of six of us, so we're six altogether, six children, three boys and three girls altogether, and I was born in Cote d'Ivoire, in Ivory Coast, although I am of Nigerian origin. One of the things growing up as a child was my father was a diplomat, so I was opportune to travel the world with him. You know every country he went through. So childhood was diverse, growing up in different countries, being exposed early to different cultures, and that stuck with me. So you also, at a very tender age, have an experience or exposure of how you think or believe things should work.
Speaker 1:And so I went back home to Nigeria when I was about 11, 12, to secondary school, and so I went through secondary school in Nigeria. I had my higher institution there as well, and after my institution I went to Yabatec, so that's a polytechnic. I had a higher national diploma there, after which I had an MBA. I did an MBA in international business and after that I also have a BSc in applied accounting. I have an MBA, so another MBA in finance and, of course, various other professional qualifications.
Speaker 2:I want to break it down to a turn because I want to go back to. I think when you think about I love that you're from a big family. I'm from a big family. I'm a family of five as well Four girls, one boy and the middle child. And it's funny because for a very long time I was the last child before the two became and disturbed my kingdom and I was not that happy.
Speaker 2:So they always say that you know, often like the oldest would tend to have a professional career and the youngest would have an entrepreneur career. And I look at this like, oh my gosh, that's interesting because, being Cameroonian, most of us, we are all entrepreneur and end up doing different things. So there was always some level of side hustle. But I think, in terms of who influenced me when I was very young, you know my mother was a strong, strong woman who really made sure that we put a lot of effort into education. You know she. You know she had first child as a young age. She wanted to make sure that we don't don't make the same mistakes I wouldn't say mistake, but take different decisions and so forth.
Speaker 2:But I'm curious to know more in terms of we can stay into that childhood. How was your family like in terms of your upbringing? What values did your parents really brought to you? And this is something that's so important. But I think for me, having been born in a single family household doesn't mean that I grew up with less love, but definitely a strong belief of what the future, different future that my mom wanted to have. So can you tell us more about that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, sure, there was a lot of love in my household growing up. My parents, you know, showed and exude a lot of love. They showed a lot of love to us as children and we were quite closely knit, you know, especially me and my two sisters that are following me, so I'm second born and the third and the fourth born. I mean, growing up we were quite closely knit, just like you said. You know, there was an age gap between my older brother and myself, so about 10 years between us, so we were not as close as I was to my sisters who were closer to me in age. But having said that, in terms of influence, both my parents influenced us in different ways.
Speaker 1:My mom was a teacher. You know she instilled a lot of discipline. She was a very disciplined woman as a teacher and so you couldn't do anything and get away with it. You know she would discipline you. So you couldn't do anything and get away with it. You know she would discipline you and I think that has it shows today in terms of, you know, character. So she was the one that instilled a lot of discipline.
Speaker 1:My dad, on the other hand, was quite. He had his own way of trying to pass across his expectations to you. You know my dad was the type that he could. You could sit down with him, you know, and discuss and have conversations. He preferred to have conversations with you, deep conversations, and oftentimes you tend to wonder that those conversations for me, I found them a bit more impactful. I mean it's good to be disciplined you know what I mean by being disciplined but at the same time I found them a bit more impactful. I mean it's good to be disciplined you know what I mean by being disciplined but at the same time I found out that you know, when someone has an expectation of you and they sit down with you and they have that one-to-one with you and they tell you where you're doing well or where you have let them down, it resonates more and then you want to do more, you know, to ensure that. Okay, I'm not letting down.
Speaker 1:You know my parents and whether it was my father's approach or my mom's approach, the end goal was, you know, education. They wanted us to have a sound education because they believe that you know that paved the at least the foundation or the gateway for you to then, you know, go on to do greater things. So both of them did influence. At the end of the day, perhaps my dad's role had a greater influence in my life because he was a diplomat first and foremost and he was also an accountant. So I think growing up I had the inclination that, yes, that was the space and area I wanted to play in, either as a businessman or as an accountant and even as a diplomat.
Speaker 1:Now, funny enough, my dad's expectations were that probably I'll go on to be a doctor and things like that. Because in secondary school I was in the science class. But I knew very early on where my talent and my skills, you know, lay, and I knew that I was stronger in the social sciences rather than pure sciences or social sciences, you know, and the arts. And so that got me early on, even before I left secondary school, to say, oh, I was going to read business administration, so which is what I read, you know, when I went to Yabatek in Nigeria for my so I had my ordinary national diploma there and my higher national diploma from Yabatek in Nigeria.
Speaker 2:So Let me ask you a question. You know, when you are a son of a diplomat, does it give you some level of advantages of privilege?
Speaker 1:I would say it exposes you at an early age. I mentioned this at the beginning when I said, because we're able to travel with him to different countries of the world, you get exposure. There's a level of expectation of how you think, as you grow up, how you think things should work in a particular country or in a particular setting, how you think things should work in a particular country or in a particular setting, and I think that's very key and important. You know, and you also tend to meet at a very early age people from different cultures, different backgrounds. You know, you mix, and so that gives you to an extent yes, you might still be a child, but it gives you as you're growing up, it does give you a level of you know, understanding of, okay, you know how the world works to an extent, and so I think it does give you that added advantage, rather than just growing up locally in your local environment, you know. So, moving from country to country and, yeah, it has. So for me, I think those are the advantages. Disadvantages is so, for me, I think those are the advantages Disadvantages is, yeah, your schooling could get disrupted because you could be in one country for three to four years and then you know your dad or mom, whoever you know, the diplomat finishes their term there and then they have to get posted to another country.
Speaker 1:And then you have to move again, get settled into that country, get into another school, meet new friends again, start all over again. And then you also have this issue in terms of because one country you could be speaking English, another country could be speaking French or Spanish. You also have to adapt to that kind of life. But I would say overall no, it was quite good, I enjoyed it. Childhood was good. But I would say overall, no, it was quite good, I enjoyed it. Childhood was good. I loved growing up. I loved the exposure. I still look back at some of the times in some of the countries that my dad was posted to with a lot of nostalgia. I love it and, yeah, it's formed part of who I am and shaped part of, I think, what I'm doing now and also what I want to do in the future part of, I think, what I'm doing now and also what I want to do in the future.
Speaker 2:It's beautiful. What you say is that you know from a young age you're exposed to having to adapt very fast, having to recreate your life every now and then having to make new relationships. And the sooner you are faced with those challenges, the easier it becomes later in life. And it's interesting because I think about my childhood. So I always said that my friends, I like the United of Benetton, because we were all just kids of immigrants from different backgrounds and I never questioned my blackness. It's interesting, right, I never questioned my blackness. I would never face racism.
Speaker 2:People said, oh wow, I'm faced with all the things objectification and so on and so on. But at a young age I didn't face such such things. And it's interesting when you have that, that richness that you grew up with, that cultural or cultural awareness or exposure. It shapes your life and and also broaden your, your horizon to what you think you're capable of achieving, which is beautiful. And it's interesting as well. Like we see your parents.
Speaker 2:You nigerian by heritage, you know your parents wanted you to have that those titles engineer, doctor, stays, accountant, stays within, which is a beautiful thing, but, yes, you turn out to be involved in financial crime, which is also very interesting, so I look forward to hearing about that. So when we come back to your education, it's good to see that you had the discipline, but you also had that open conversation. I love how you say that. You know, the conversation that I got to have with my father gave me much more richness, and sometimes the discipline cuts that conversation and it may sometimes bring us apart.
Speaker 2:But I also value I know that when I was younger I had a friend where parents could let us do anything she wanted. My parents were like no, you're not doing this, you're not doing that. My mom was like you can't do this, you can't do that, and I didn't see the benefit of it. But that discipline was what made us who we are right now. I was like you know, I'm grateful that you didn't allow me to do whatever I wanted when I was young. I only realize it now, so it's only when you're older, but you realize it.
Speaker 1:So to Polytechnic. Is that what you say you did? So the first place I went to was, yeah, Polytechnic called Yabba.
Speaker 1:College of Technology, I had an honorary national diploma in business administration. From there I also went back there. After my internship a one-year internship I went back to do my higher national diploma, so the HND, also in business administration. When I left there I went to the Lagos State University and at the Lagos State University I got an MBA in international business. I also sat for my ACCA, so I'm a chartered accountant. And while doing my ACCA they also have a program where you can get your BSc in appliedlied Accounting from the Oxford Brookes University here in the UK. So I also have a BSc in Applied Accounting from the Oxford Brookes University in the UK. And I also after that enrolled with the Alliance Manchester Business School, so Manchester Business School I think it's now called the Alliance Manchester Business School. So the Manchester Business School, I think it's now called the Alliance Manchester Business School. And I also had another MBA, this time in finance. Oh my God.
Speaker 2:Can I ask a question? Why did you choose did you choose voluntary to do those all this, all this qualification, and or was it part of? If you want to get to this position, you have to do it. How did that happen?
Speaker 1:So it was a combination of everything. So, yes, for each of these things that I've done, I did them voluntarily because I wanted to do them. I felt you know I was also getting yeah, you know you're getting satisfaction as part of your. You know dreams and your plans and you know your strategy. So it was deliberate, yes, and voluntary, but at the same time, it was also strategic. Strategic in the sense that you also look at, this is my field, this is what I want to do, but what can I do in this field to also advance me? So take, for example, my ACCA. When I started my ACCA exams, I was in Nigeria, but I also had a long-term plan to relocate to the UK, and I knew that, as part of relocating to the UK in order to get you know, just to be a step ahead, or to prepare myself for the environment it would be good for me to do my ACCA. So I started to do that in advance.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that when I get here I can also position myself into the market. So what kind of qualifications do you have? Oh, I have an ACCA. It's a British qualification. I have a BSc in Applied Accounting. It's a British qualification, you know. And when I got here to, I went to, like I said, the Alliance Manchester Business School. I also did my MBA in finance. It's a British qualification.
Speaker 1:It's a lot easier because it's easier for them to understand okay, he's got the qualification from here than you know from, maybe back home. When they start to ask you, you know, a lot of questions, or too many questions, they may not understand. Even though the standard of learning could can very well be the same, they may not understand all that dynamic. So it's just better to, you know, have qualifications from schools, you know, recognize institutions in the environment you are. So, which is what I did, yes, which is strategic. And I also have a few other professional qualifications. I'm a certified internal auditor. I have the ICA, so Internal Compliance Association, you know I'm a member there. I've got a diploma in anti-money laundering, you know. So these are things that one has done to position myself and to also make me relevant in, you know, in my industry.
Speaker 2:But I think that you love learning. I do think that you love learning.
Speaker 1:I do love learning. Like I said, it's deliberate. I do love learning and which is why I love training and development. I didn't actually realize that I because I, you know, in the past in my career I, you know I give training, I you know training and development, I train staff and things like that but I didn't really. It was later, down the years, down the line, that I realized that I actually like training and development and, yes, you're right, I actually like learning. So, which is why I said at the beginning, it was deliberate, it was voluntary but at the same time, it was very strategic. It wasn't just going to be a case of just learning for the sake of learning. Yes, I'm learning, but it was targeted learning towards my field of, you know, endeavor and the industries that I wanted to play in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have two questions I want to ask you. I want to ask you when did you come to the UK and did you think that for you to be taking seriously those qualifications because of maybe the preconceived ideas that people may have that you need to prove that you were capable and that was important Do you think that, unconsciously, you need to have this qualification to be your armor?
Speaker 1:So when you go into all these roles. They don't doubt you. So first, to answer your first question, I arrived in the UK in I think it was August 2019, 2009,. Sorry, august 2009. So that's when I came to the UK. So going to about 15 years now that I've been in the UK.
Speaker 1:To answer the other question, a lot of times, the experience that you've gathered over the years will speak for you. So you know, you've worked in one place, you've worked in one industry or sector, you know and you've moved to different firms and you gather experience. So your experience would always speak for you. But, yes, it's also good if you have these qualifications to back you up.
Speaker 1:Now, I'm not saying it's a must, because you see lots of people that have risen just by experience. They start from the very bottom and they rise from the experience, which is absolutely key and important. So I need to stress that the experience you get absolutely key and important. So I need to stress that the experience you get, you know, whether in your career or you know anywhere in life, is very important because you fall back on those experiences to move you forward. But having said that, yeah, it's also good to have some of these qualifications, because it just adds a bit of credibility, you know, and integrity to say that, okay, yeah, this person is, you know, probably an expert in this area. So, yeah, so it's good, it's a good thing to have, I believe.
Speaker 2:I love that. So how was your entry into the real world? What was your first job?
Speaker 1:My first job was an internship in Nigeria. So it was a one-year internship with Guarantee Trust Bank, so that's GT Bank. I was there for one year. I was in declaring department for about six months and I think I was in internal control for about six months. So it was a very good experience and I think that shaped me earlier on to decide to go into banking. And if you look at my career, the vast majority of my career has been in banking and so that experience just you know we call them at the time. You know Guarantee Trust Bank was one of those banks we called in Nigeria new generation banks. You know they had just come into the banking industry. They had disrupted the industry, you industry, the likes of GT Bank, the likes of Zenith. They had come in and so there was some kind of disruption going on young men and women.
Speaker 2:Was it like a startup feel.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they started as a startup by the time I did my internship there. I think it was 94, 94, 95. I think GT Bank, for example, was already about four years old then, if I'm not mistaken, maybe about four or five years old at the time. And so, yes, I joined them and you had young men, young women, very dynamic, lovely ideas disrupting the Nigerian banking industry. So, yeah, that fascinated me, it intrigued me, and so I said you know what I'm going to pursue banking, and as a matter of fact, I'm also a chartered banker, so I'm a fellow of the Chartered Institute of Bankers of Nigeria as well. So, yeah, so that was it, and that was how I went back for my job higher national diploma in Yabatek after the one year internship, and when I finished I served in.
Speaker 1:So in Nigeria you've got this what we called the NYSC, so National Youth Service Corps is like a para, you know, military service thing which you do for one year. And so while I was doing that, I was placed into UBA, so that's the United Bank for Africa, and so that was where I served for one year and that was how my journey into banking just continued. So, from UBA I was there for a year and then for my NYC, and after that I was there for another year and then I moved to Fortune Bank. Fortune Bank is no longer existing now, but I moved to Fortune Bank, you know at the time, and then from Fortune Bank I moved to Nigerian-Belgium Merchant Bank NBM, which later became Sterling Bank. From Sterling Bank I moved to Fidelity Bank in Nigeria. From Fidelity Bank I moved to Stambik IBTC and then I'm now here, after which I moved to the UK. So that's been my banking journey from.
Speaker 2:You moved a lot across a lot of financial institutions. Were you proactive in moving into those institutions or were people reaching out to you? How did that? I'm curious as well, like what's that transition happen? Also, what other things did you learn as well for that journey?
Speaker 1:it was a combination of both. So, in in some places you move proactively because the opportunity is there and the opportunity is there for you to, to, to grow. You know you're giving more responsibilities, you're probably going on a promotion. You know, and, um, that that is quite and and you look, you look up to that. You're looking to grow, you're looking to to get and you look up to that, you're looking to grow. You're looking to get more experience. You're looking to manage teams. You're looking to, you know, have a larger portfolio in, you know, in your job description and the kind of things you do. So, yes, it was a combination of both.
Speaker 1:Some, you know, you get headhunted. People reach out to you and say, oh, you know, maybe someone that knows somebody, a friend, could reach out to you to say, well, they have a friend, or you know someone that is looking for somewhere or this position. Are you interested? You say, oh, yeah, sure, why not? You apply, you go for the interview and you know you do well, and then you get the job weld, and then you get the job, um, or or. It could be a case of, you know, I myself just saying you know it's, I think it's time to move and I look out and and apply as we continue this engaging conversation, remember that black rise is more than just a podcast.
Speaker 2:We're a dynamic platform where businesses can connect, collaborate and prosper with black professionals, entrepreneurs and black-owned companies. Our commitment to diversity, inclusion and empowerment reshapes industries and builds a future where Black excellence thrives globally. So don't forget to subscribe and give us a five-star review on iTunes. I'm curious, doreen what advice would you give to maybe young, ambitious professionals in Nigeria right now who want to have a similar career to you? And then we can talk about the UK.
Speaker 1:Well, I've not been in Nigeria for close to 15 years now, so I don't really know what the landscape, the banking landscape, is like, to be fair. But having said that, it's just. It's a combination of the way Nigeria works. You need to. The education is basic. It's one of the basic things in Nigeria.
Speaker 1:You know that there are a lot of banks and, like I said, I don't really know how it works right now, but at the time I was there, you really had to do well in school. You know you at least a 2-1 to get into most of the good banks. So you need to start with your education and then, when you get into the bank, hard work. You need to work hard. You also need to work smart and that is very, very key. So one of the things of getting in, if you're coming in straight from school, is try and make sure you have good grades, at least as far as Nigeria is concerned especially. Yeah, you need to have good grades. It gives you a better chance. Like I said, I don't know what the landscape is like right now, but when I was there, you had to have at least a 2-1 to have a very good chance of even getting in for you know getting opportunities to sit, you know entrance tests and exams before you even go for interviews and and things like that.
Speaker 2:So it's education is very key it's very interesting what you say to him, because when I think about achieving, making it and having a successful career in the uk yes, having been good at what you do, people expect that, but what really makes you get to the top is also all the soft skills that you develop. But from what you're saying, in Nigeria that's obviously the foundation of having you know good grades, as if you are a young person and then do the work well, and so it's more towards merit than just building soft skills and relationship with people. Do you believe that is different?
Speaker 1:I think first, yeah, you need to get your education, you need to get in, you need to work hard, and then you begin to rise. Then the soft skills come in as you begin to rise through the organization. You know the people skills, you know the managing skills, you know conflict resolution, you know all the communication, collaboration, being a team player and all of that stuff. Then you begin to build on that. I think the first thing is to try and get in. And then, when you get in, um and and again I'm talking about um, I'm talking from a place of entry level. Yeah, of course, yes, you're coming in from the entry level. If you're more senior, you probably would have built up the soft skills already, probably would have some kind of pedigree, because you would have gotten experience, you know so, and at that level. So, yes, your people skills, your relationship with others, your network, your network very important would also determine, I guess you know, how far you can go as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so now in the UK, you're in the UK, you decided I'm going to take my career further. I'd be curious to know, in terms of the challenges that you were not prepared for, and how did you overcome them? And yes, and you continue to rise to the top.
Speaker 1:So, coming to the UK, I came on the highly skilled migrant program, the HSMP, at the time.
Speaker 2:What that exists, that still exists.
Speaker 1:No, at the time. That's what I said at the time in 2009. It existed in 2009. I think that program stopped in 2010.
Speaker 1:In 2009, yeah, I came on that program because, of course, being a skilled worker and I left Nigeria at the time as a full manager, a skilled worker, and I left Nigeria at the time as a full manager, so coming here one of the challenges, because you're highly skilled and you come here. But then I also discovered that when you come here, it's like the businesses here are not really, they weren't really prepared for some of us some of us skilled workers that were coming in, or the system, because you then have to start from the scratch. Really, yeah, yeah, lots of times you might have one or two people that are, you know, maybe very lucky. You know divine intervention and God on their side. God has been very, very good to me, but a lot of times, if you hear a lot of stories, you're literally starting from the scratch you say starting from scratch, you mean like going back to entry level well, it depends.
Speaker 1:I know people, because one of the things that they they tend to use is you don't have uk experience. Then you tell them that, oh, but hold on, I'm, you know I've either worked as an accountant in any of the big four, you know, I mean I haven't worked in any of the big four, but I know, I mean I haven't worked in any of the big four. But I'm just giving an example. If you want to say for myself, who has worked in banking, yeah, one or two products, you know, might differ, but then the found, you know, banking foundation or principles, are the same. So you expect that I'll be able to, you know, get in at least a decent level. But it's not quite like that.
Speaker 1:Sometimes, in most cases, you find out that you do have to, you know, prove yourself. Yes, you do have to prove yourself to get in. And a lot of times what a lot of the recruiters use is, oh, you don't have UK experience. You say, but I have global experience because I'm coming from outside the uk, I've got overseas experience, but no, you don't have uk experience. So you then have to try and find that uk experience, you know. So in my case, when I first came I had to work in a call center, an outsourcing call center, for one year. You know, before I was opportune to get the opportunity to then move into, you know, rbs at the time.
Speaker 2:I love it. You know what One thing about I love is that people with big ego would say you know what? No, I am too good to do this. But at the end of the day, as you say yourself, you have to pay your bills. And I also don't understand the concept of bringing you as a high skilled individual and not giving you the opportunities when you arrive. That is complete disconnect, doesn't make sense to me.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I think there was a disconnect between the government policies and what the businesses were doing to be fair, and that's the experience that, um, I know quite a lot of us um had like, and, like I've stated before, there are a few people that you know have been lucky, they've come in and they've come in at the right level, you know, but then it's not the case for everyone.
Speaker 1:There are lots of people that, yeah, had to come in and, you know, start from some lower level just to get back to you know where they are today, and then that journey continues.
Speaker 2:You know it's funny. I remember I did call centre. I did one day day I hated it so badly and I realized this is not for me at all. But I tried because something like, something not similar like you. But when I graduated I had always beautiful degrees but I had no experience. Nobody wanted to hire me because I was expensive on paper and useless in reality. So I said, let me see what I can find. I did door-to-door sales, and one as well was also um call center. I remember I was uh, I can't remember what I was selling, but it was either like telecommunication, but I struggled to just follow the script because I'm a creative so I don't like to, uh, I don't like scripts. I was like you, give me something, give me bullet points. I've been a freestyle into that. Yeah, I didn't last. I couldn't sell anything, but I admire you. Yeah, this is not. This is not easy.
Speaker 1:No, it wasn't easy, it was, um, I'm not gonna lie, it wasn't easy, you know, because being a full manager in a bank back home, you know, and you've got all the perks you know, with that come along with the position, you know, you've got people reporting to you, you've got, you know, a decent job description and there's a a very good pathway of also rising in terms of your career. And then you make the move to come here because you're a skilled person and and then all of a sudden you find yourself in a call center. No, it's not, um, it's not. It's not a pleasant experience. It can be quite frustrating, but you know, but then I, I thank God. You know I was, I was able to hang in there. It wasn't easy for the one year but, you know, looking back now I thank God and the way I moved was, it was quite divine, you know. That's why I said yeah, for me it was more of divine intervention, to be fair, and all my, my, my life story and my career here has just been.
Speaker 2:So how did you move? Tell us, because quite often a number of times I've spoken I don't speak to anybody. So I speak to security guards sometimes and they tell me they have a doctor or whatever in their country and they get stuck in that loophole where they can't come out. And that's sometimes the risk. You know, I have this qualification, qualification, but they don't recognize this here, so I have to do security and so on. Not saying that isn't, it is a humble job and it's a hard work as well. So how did you come out and be able to come back on the right path?
Speaker 1:yeah, so I've been applying for all these roles for almost a year. I've been applying and applying and, of course, you get the same rejection, rejection, rejection, and it was getting to a level of frustration, to be honest. But then there was some time in 2010, I just got to I had applied, for I don't even think I had applied. I think I had applied before, but I got rejections, so I didn't. It's not as if I had applied this time around. But then I got a call from the bank. It was from RBS. At the time.
Speaker 1:They gave me a call, I think they were recruiting, and they were recruiting for this customer advisor role at the time. So they gave me a call and they said, oh, that they are recruiting for these roles. Am I interested? Because I had applied with them before and they are recruiting for these roles? Am I interested Because I had applied with them before and I got so many rejections? But my CV was in their database you know they keep these things for a while so they'd reached out and I said, oh, yeah, sure, why not? And so that was how I went for the interview and, to God be the glory, that's how I got the job and went in. So it's not as if I kind of applied for it. You know, they actually reached out to say oh, they have my CV, you know, am I interested in this role, you know? And I said sure, and then we went through the interview process and so, yeah, the rest is history. So that's how I got back into banking.
Speaker 2:It's interesting because I did exactly the same thing as you. Now I got back into banking. It's interesting because I did exactly the same thing as you. So I couldn't get a job. So, again, leaving the call center. I got a position as a receptionist and when I was in, I was in. That was my thing. Okay, I am in, then I can get, I can move across. So now that you got in, what happened? How did you manage to come back to your passion and your desire and your actual career.
Speaker 1:So I got in and, of course, customer you know, advisor role was what I was doing while I was there. But then I also actually what I wanted to do was forensic accounting. That's where I really wanted to go to, yes, and when I came here I tried to get into a few, you know, get into a few accounting firms or accounting roles, but I couldn't because, again, I didn't have UK experience. And the second, I guess, excuse was oh, but you're more of a banker than an accountant which is true because I was more, because up until then a lot of my career was banking. But, yeah, forensic accounting, I was trying to get into there.
Speaker 1:Now, after about 10 months, about 10 months in RBS, I got introduced to a friend of mine. I mean, she's now a friend. I got introduced to her and she had people that she knew people. We just got talking and she was like, oh, I heard you were in investment banking and she said, yes, she used to work in investment banking. I said, oh, I'm trying to get into investment banking you know, I'm looking at forensic accounting and things like that If I could get into, you know, some areas of investment banking. And she said, oh, well, she knows one or two people and she sent out my CD to them and you know, thank God, as God would have it, one of those people the firm that that person was working with at the time was recruiting. They reached out to me and of course it was okay, you've got transferable skills. So you are a banker, you're a chartered accountant. Um, you know, you've and I'd already started to do, I'd done the investment management certificate exams at the time and the investment management certificate there was another friend of mine who advised me to do the exam because he said that exam will give me an overview of the UK banking um, the system, the financial system and especially the investment.
Speaker 1:You know the various parts of the UK banking system. And then in there there were various things you know they talked about. You know MIFID, compliance and various areas also in that exam. So the CFA, the Society of the UK, does that foundational exam. It's called the IMC.
Speaker 1:So I did that and so by the time I went for that interview because I had done the exam, they asked me a lot of compliance questions, which AYC and all of that stuff which I could answer Because I could also use my experience, even though I technically have not done compliance, but as part of your work, I was a relationship manager back home and as part of that work there will be an element of compliance and KYC United Financial Crime. So I was able to marry the knowledge I had obtained from sitting for that exam plus my experience to answer the questions, and they were satisfied, and so that was how I moved into to compliance and anti-financial crime, to be specific so the fact that you had all these qualifications were able to be adjustable to the need of a company, isn't it?
Speaker 1:yes, yes, because they were, because I had transferable skills, yes, and so and that's another thing that know you need to have transferable skills. So it's good to have soft skills. You know it's that I'd had previously on the job. You know the KYC, anti-financial crime, even though I wasn't necessarily a compliance officer, but some aspects of your job you know. You have to do address verification. For example, here you do address verification. They tell you. You know, bring your utility bill. You know to do address verification. They do all these electronic things and all of that In Nigeria you actually go to the client's office physically.
Speaker 1:You know, yeah, so, even though I wasn't a compliance officer at the time, but I was doing some things, some aspects of my job until doing that, you understand what I mean. Yes, some things, some aspects of my job entailed doing that. You understand what I mean. Yes, that came in very handy when that time to crossover arrived. So that's how you know I got the job and that's how I stayed in. You know what I'm doing. I love what I'm doing. It's it's not forensic accounting, but at least it's, it's all in the same. You know area control, environment, et cetera, and so I love what I'm doing currently.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that's how I made the transition. Wow, good, I think your resilience, but also you have patience. I can tell you have patience, because for me but I will tell you I do I don't have a lot of patience like, ah, I'm just eager, I want things to move fast and that's also probably the reason why I stay in the uk. That's ambitious. You, I will tell someone, want that, but you have that patience and that's why now you have a vice president of one of the you know in your category, in your field, one of the largest global financial institutions. So tell us now, how did you get to this position, what did you have to do, and how much of obviously your very nice skills are now pretty much established and how much of your soul skills have also made an impact. Because I think what you say in this part of your story, that the people that you know made a big impact as well in you having access to those opportunities. So now, as anybody who aspires to get to that level, what advice would you give them?
Speaker 1:So it's a combination of everything. You need to work hard, definitely I said that before. If you can get the skills and the knowledge and the education, please do. And then you need to build up the skills you know, your, your different skills, the soft skills, the transferable skills very, very important. You need to have a network of people you know and everywhere you work, just you know, just try as much as possible you know to, when you are leaving, to leave on good terms. Yeah, it's very important, you know, just yeah, you might not get along with everybody at you know, in the place of work and things like that, but just try and at least leave on a good note, you know, let you know, have a good impression when you're leaving, because you never know, when somebody somewhere in the future might need to fill out a vacancy or a role and you know they will just think about you and say, oh well, okay, I worked with this person. You know this person was fairly decent. Yeah, why not? Let's give this person you know a chance.
Speaker 2:It seems like you have a story that you can tell us on that.
Speaker 1:Yes, because and I would say that because two or three times it's happened to me where I've had to fall back on. And I'll give an example. When I left Nomura and I went to Credit Agricole, my former boss at Credit Agricole at the time reached out to a friend who I'd worked with at BGC. I'd left BGC and I'd moved to Nomura, and while I was at Nomura he reached out to this friend of mine and said, oh, he wants her to come and fill out this role. And she said, well, she wasn't interested in that role, but that she thinks she knows someone that can do the role. And so she reaches out to me and said are you interested? And I said, yeah, why not? Let's give it a shot.
Speaker 1:And so I went for the interview and, yeah, my boss because he later became my boss was quite impressed, you know, with me at the interview and everything. And so he took me on. I ended up staying there for four and a half years. I think that's the longest place I've stayed so far in the UK. Yeah, in terms of in terms of um work and wait a minute so you don't stay moving.
Speaker 2:How long would you usually stay in the same?
Speaker 1:position. It depends, it depends, you know, it depends, it depends. So I would say on average two and a half, three years, you know that's a good time.
Speaker 2:I think that people can learn something from you. Here is like two and a half. Two and a half to years is the exact right time to stay in the same position. Yeah, because I heard this somewhere say that if you're not moving or you're not getting paid more or you're not progressing, you're actually losing money. So, yeah, so this is actually a good technique. So two and a half to three years, bye, yeah.
Speaker 1:So mainly two and a half years, I think. On average I stayed two and a half years, but then I then moved to, you know, credit. I recall I had a great relationship with him and I was there for about four and a half years. So we developed that relationship and I moved, you know, somewhere else. And when I moved somewhere else, I loved the job. You know, I loved the job, I loved what I was doing, but I don't think the environment was quite right. So, yeah, after about 18 months there, I decided to leave and you know, I just called him up because we kept in touch, we're always talking and I called him up and I said you know, um, you know, it seems I'm going to leave here and I was forced to leave because I didn't have anywhere else to go at the time. So I just resigned. You know, I didn't it's not as if I had another job in mind, but I think it got into a stage where I felt, okay, it was time to move was that bad that you left without having something else?
Speaker 1:yes, without, without a job, yeah are you?
Speaker 2:Are you able to say what made you leave?
Speaker 1:I just think it was toxic. The environment was toxic, the job was good, I love the job, I love doing the job, but I just think it was a toxic environment.
Speaker 2:Can I ask you a question? People don't know if they are in a toxic environment. How do you know if you're in a toxic environment?
Speaker 1:Well, a lot of things it could. It could be different things, you know, it could be torn from the top. You know the culture. You know in the place you see a lot of cliques and clusters, politics, but more importantly is the human interaction. You know, yeah, yeah, there has to be some kind of level of decent human interaction. You know, between people. If, if the level of interaction is is wanting, you know. If it's not there, you know between people. If the level of interaction is wanting, you know. If it's not there, you know, then there's something. You don't have, that solid relationship. You know, like I said, you don't have to like everybody in your place of work, but you can work well and get. You know, you can get along well, work well, make sure the job is done, you know, and things like that. But this place was just very toxic, the environment was just toxic and I wasn't the only one that left. Lots of people left after me. Some didn't even have jobs as well.
Speaker 2:It takes a lot of courage to say you know, forget this, I'm going to go because, for my own sanity, no amount of money will keep me here. And again it comes back to having integrity and uh, and a self-value as well exactly.
Speaker 1:You know, and, and just yeah, and everything. And then your health. You know, at the point in time it it was affecting. You know it was affecting one's health. You don't sleep well, you're dreading going into the office. You know the next day you don't know what's going to happen. I mean it's not. It's not a place you want to be in.
Speaker 1:You know you spent most of your your life in the office. You know Exactly so. You want to be in a place where at least you are. You know you're okay. You're okay to go in and do the things you need to do. It doesn't have to be great and you have to be.
Speaker 1:You know jumping up and down and but at least you know that, okay, I can go in, I can do my work, get it done, have a decent relationship with people. Um, you know my ideas and opinions are respected. If I say something to be acted upon, if I don't get things right, I can be corrected. You know, and corrected. You know properly so it's um, correct someone, um, and you know it's professionally done. You know properly, so it's correct someone, and you know it's professionally done. You know that they want the best for you. Yeah, exactly so, and you know that, and then you learn and grow from that. That's how you learn, that's how you grow.
Speaker 1:You know we're all going to make mistakes, but if you make a mistake and you're being put down, you know you're being looked down upon, you're being casted down upon because you've made a mistake. I mean, you know, come on. So I would have thought, in that kind of you know, you would, you would lift that person up and say, ok, you know what. You've made this mistake, this is how you do it next time. You know you treat the person, you coach the person, you bring the person up. That is what. That's what leadership is all about, you know. So there's a difference between being a manager and being a leader. They're two different things, and that's what being leadership is all about. You know, being a leader is all about Now.
Speaker 2:And you know, I always say that there's no bad employees, there's only bad leaders.
Speaker 1:Yes, and I agree with that, because if your manager is fantastic or the leadership and management is fantastic, there's so much you can do. There's so much you can do and even to the extent that you're willing to go the extra mile, you're willing to do things, go the extra mile just because you've got a fantastic manager or leadership team or management and things like that. And I think oftentimes in the place at work we tend to overlook that people don't. The importance of that, you know, cannot be overemphasized. People don't understand how important it is, you know, to be a good leader in the office and just carry your, your people along. You know the people that report to you and even even your superiors, you know so. It's report to you and even even your superiors, you know so it's very important.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, so that's how I left without a job. But as I was preparing to leave, you know, I had this conversation with this former boss of mine and you know what he just said I should come back straight away, yeah. So again, it goes back to what I'm saying. You know, fostering those relationships, you know, and it's not as if I have a big network myself, but you know it's closely knit and it's tight, you know, but there are people that you know I can always rely on.
Speaker 2:Yes, and you know what you say is so important. You don't have to have a lot of people in your network, you just need to have, you know, good people that you can rely on. That A lot of people in your network, you just need to have, you know, good people that you can rely on. That's so important. We've seen people when they're successful, we have all supposed to be running them, but when they need help, everybody disappear. And that's where you can really see who are your friends. You see your friends. You see people that you can count on, not when things are going right, so when things are going wrong, who is there to help you? Who can you pick up the phone and will listen and give attention that you need and try to open door for you. That's so important, what you just say.
Speaker 1:So, yes, I just wanted to emphasize on that, thank you. So yeah, so that's it, you know. So it's important, it's important to to have those relationships yes.
Speaker 2:So, coming back, I wanted to come back to the now your position as a vice president. I mean, this is this is one of the largest global financial institutions that we know not the largest, but among the largest. Yes and yes, you're in a position where you know where you are. This is a testament of resilience and trust, and believe in what you can do for yourself.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's true, and also divine, lots of divine intervention.
Speaker 2:Divine amen to that. Whether you believe in God or not, I do, but I know that it's so important to have faith. Whatever you choose in the universe, whether you trust, know, god, I think that's so important to have faith in yourself and that can take you anywhere you want in life, and it's so important, right? So one what would be, you know? To finishing off, what would be, what is your vision of the future for you? Now, you will always move. Every two and a half years well, funny, funny enough, I think.
Speaker 1:I think where? I am now it's going to. It's going to four years now. Okay, I've been here four years, so so, yeah, I'm being a good boy oh, wow, it was such a pleasure to have you on this podcast.
Speaker 2:You've been such a delight and, honestly, your, your story is so humble. Story of modesty, story of patience, and I can learn a lot from you. Patience, definitely not my strength, so patience and and trust and yeah, and resilience and continuous learning, I think that's what's beautiful you have, and I'm sure by now you're probably learning something else. Knowing, knowing you a little bit, I'm pretty sure you're learning another skill right now, which is beautiful. Am I lying? I'm sure you're learning something else, are you?
Speaker 1:Am I? I think so, I think I am.
Speaker 2:I knew it All right. So anybody who wants to get in contact with Toyin, you can find him on LinkedIn. Is there anything else?
Speaker 1:best way to reach out. To reach out to me through linkedin fantastic story.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for your time for all my amazing listeners. I hope that you enjoyed this conversation. A story of resilience, a story of patience, a story of defining what is possible for you, a story of of having the right connections, a story of always learning how to end anything in good terms. Even things don't go as you plan it, and I think it's so important, and you know. Story of faith I think it's important as well. Story of faith in yourself. Story story in faith in, in, in the biggest, bigger universe that we are in, and things will work out as long as you are consistent. Work hard and smart, work hard and smart, smart.
Speaker 1:Let's add smart, because not just hard yes, smart, I said that as well at the beginning. One thing I do want to add like you said, you need to believe in yourself. Times will come when things might not look like it's working, things might not look like it's going the way you want it to go and I know it might sound like a cliche, you might have heard it from so many other people, but trust me, you have to believe in yourself. You have to be your number one fan. No one is going to do it for you, nobody. You just have to believe. This is the vision, this is the goal, this is where I want to get to. And then you, you, you, you know you need to believe in yourself and make it happen, and I believe so much in in God. So, yes, you back it up, you know, with your faith, and, and, and then you know, you take that step and God will back back you up and you, you he'll make you get to where you want to go.
Speaker 2:Amazing. If you're not inspired by this conversation, I don't know what will inspire you and I don't don't want to add any more. Thank you everybody for listening. Thank you again, Toyin, for being a great guest, and I will see you all very soon. Thank you for joining us on this episode of Black Rise. We hope that you found this conversation as inspiring as we did. Share your takeaways on social media and tag us as we wrap up. Remember that you can always stay connected with us. Join us on this journey of elevation, motivation and empowerment. Let's rise together, break barriers and create lasting change. Subscribe now to stay updated with our latest episodes and visit theblackrisecom to find out more. This is Black Rise, where excellence and impact converge to redefine the future. Until next time, keep rising.