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Black Rise
Welcome to Black Rise podcast, your gateway to inspiring conversations with the crème de la crème of Black talent, leaders of 7-figure and above businesses across a spectrum of industries. Your host is Flavilla Fongang, an award-winning serial entrepreneur and she will be your guide on this journey.
Black Rise isn't just a podcast; it's an extension of the first business platform dedicated to connecting the business world to talented, skilled and experienced Black talent. Our aim is to create connections, foster collaboration, and fuel growth by bringing together Black professionals, visionary entrepreneurs, and groundbreaking businesses. We're here to bridge the networking gap, facilitating collaborative growth not only within the Black community but also far-reaching into the broader world.
In each episode, we dive deep into the stories and experiences of our remarkable guests. They share their insights, challenges, and strategies that have propelled them to the pinnacle of success. Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur, a seasoned professional, or simply hungry for knowledge and inspiration, Black Rise provides you with the tools and motivation you need to reach your own pinnacles of achievement.
But we're more than just a podcast. We're a dynamic community where excellence knows no bounds. When you subscribe to 'Black Rise,' you're not just gaining access to incredible stories—you're also opening doors to exclusive opportunities within our thriving ecosystem.
Join us on this journey of elevation, motivation, and empowerment. Let's rise together, break barriers, and create lasting change. Subscribe now to stay updated with our latest episodes and visit www.theblackrise.com to connect, collaborate, and embark on a transformative path to success.
This is Black Rise, where excellence and impact converge to redefine the future.
Black Rise
How To Craft a Future in Commercial Real Estate - With Sarah Stephen
From overcoming homelessness to embracing the power of property investment, my journey has been a testament to the resilience and determination that defines success. In this candid conversation with property investment expert Sarah Stephen, we peel back the layers of wealth disparity within the Black community and showcase the transformative potential of strategic partnerships. Sarah brings her inspiring narrative to the table, demonstrating how a foundation of family support and strategic navigation can lead to empowerment and financial independence.
Our dialogue traverses from the early sparks of a business mindset in my youth, through the challenges that honed my adaptability, to the strategic realm of property investment and co-investing. Alongside my stories, Sarah shares her expertise, offering an insider's perspective on navigating the real estate industry as a woman of color. We dissect misconceptions around property investment, discuss the benefits of commercial real estate, and highlight how co-investing can help break down financial barriers.
Wrapping up this empowering episode, we reflect on the broader implications of financial literacy and the role of community in wealth building. The encouraging narrative of the Reaboof Property Group exemplifies the power of collective effort, while our discussion underlines the importance of starting small and committing to financial education. As you join us on this enlightening journey through Black Rise, remember our collective potential to create meaningful change and redefine the future with excellence and impact. Sarah's profound insights are a call to action—an invitation to rise together and embrace the opportunities before us.
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Black Rise is not just a podcast but an extension of our Business platform. We are on a mission to bridge the gap between businesses and the immense potential of Black talent. We provide a dynamic platform where businesses and individuals can connect, collaborate, and prosper with Black professionals, entrepreneurs, and black-owned companies. We strive to showcase the value, creativity, and innovation that Black talent brings to the table, fostering partnerships that drive economic growth, diversity, and mutual success.
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If I was to sit down and reflect on how I got to where I am today, it's through collaboration, through getting somebody on board, getting them to believe in my vision, but also me understanding their vision and seeing if there's an alignment in the two visions and with that alignment we can create magic together.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Black Rice Podcast, your getaway to inspiring conversation with la crème de la crème of black talent, who are leaders of seven figure and above businesses across a spectrum of industries. I'm your host, flavilla Fong-Gang, an award-winning serial entrepreneur, who will guide you on this journey. Black Rise isn't just a podcast. It's an extension of our business platform, allowing the business world to connect with skilled, talented and experienced Black talent. Our mission is to serve as a bridge, connecting businesses with vast opportunities that lie in working with Black professionals, entrepreneurs and enterprise. We strive to showcase the value, creativity and innovation that Black talent brings to the table, fostering partnerships that drive economic growth, diversity and mutual success. Visit theblackrisecom to find out more. Hello everybody, welcome back to another episode on the Black Rise podcast.
Speaker 2:It's obviously me, your favorite voice. It's been so good. I don't know for you, but I've been. People call me the other day that you're a voracious person. I don't know how to take it. What your favorite voice? It's been so good. I don't know for you, but I've been. People call me the other day that you're a very gracious person. I don't know how to take it. What do you mean? You're a gracious learner. The way you ask questions, which are very tricky sometimes, but I like to really just be curious. I think that you can learn so much about someone and I have to be honest, this is also my way of you know not paying for a course and just listening to a fantastic Black leader who's done so well and today I'm very, very lucky.
Speaker 2:I'm talking about how I met Sarah. Sarah met yes, actually, I know how I met Sarah. I met Sarah for another great connection of mine, another property property mogul, who really, you know people have a great vision and, just like you know, I need to change. I need to change not just for myself, but I also need to change it for you know people that are part of my community and Sarah and Sarah is the person that I met. And you know, when you meet somebody, someone, you say we're going to be friends. We just know already, and that's what happened.
Speaker 2:But let me tell you a little bit more about Sarah before we discover more about her story. So Sarah, stephen, is a co-founder and residential director of Real Boat. Stephen, the buyer's agent, a highly accomplished property professional with over 14 years of experience in overseeing property purchases in the millions. So when it comes to that it's definitely a subject I want to try to really address, because we know the numbers are not really good when it comes to property ownership within the Black community and I share that over time, 20% that's the number of Black people who are property owners, versus 78% in the Asian community, 64% in the white community. So it's a big, big issue and the longer we wait, the more difficult. I mean, you know, right now you hear people say that, margot, with my style of business, no way I could ever be a property owner. So people feel that they have to do more than one job or become an entrepreneur. But anyway, we're going to get started and, sarah, it's such a pleasure to have you.
Speaker 1:How are you? I am doing very well, Fabilla.
Speaker 2:I'm so happy to have you. What people don't know is that not only you are talented, but you are such a joy to be around and I love your energy and this is why I wanted to bring you. Really care about what you do and you can see when it's not just about you know, sometimes it's to property people and feel, oh my gosh, you just want my money, but you can tell that person wants you to win and they really want you to to grow your capital, and that's one thing I really like about you. But I feel like we should start from the beginning, which is your journey, and as much as you are successful right now, I know that your journey was very humble. So tell us about your upbringing, people that really influenced you when you were young and what type of what was sour when she was young, younger, because you're so young, younger.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. So you hit the nail on its head. I come from very humble beginnings. My family very simple, and I am the middle child. I actually have seven sisters and two brothers. Wow, yes, there's eight girls and two boys and I am the middle.
Speaker 1:I'm number five, as my father would often like to call me, child number five and I grew up in a very warm family setting. My father he is one of the biggest, he's my biggest cheerleader, and also my mother she's incredible, she's one of my biggest inspiration. But what my father did try and amplify from a very, very young age, being that he has more daughters than sons. We have to navigate through life very strategically and that, you know, whilst he believes in us and he will root for us, because of the colour of our skin and also because of our gender, we may face some challenges. So, growing up, I made it my mission to always be around my father, to always be around people who are quite older, so I can gain as much wisdom as possible. So you know, I am my father's favourite, though my siblings will probably I hold that title very dearly.
Speaker 1:But what it meant was that you know I was a fast learner. You know I really loved reading. I loved engaging with people of authority, so I had so much confidence when dealing with older people because just me, you know sort of being attached to my father's hip. So that was my journey from a young age. It was very colourful, very, very fun. I was quite a boisterous child, but also I had a flair for creativity. I could really see things beyond their appearance and I loved investigating. I love digging further to find different sources of reasoning and why is it that people did certain things and why do they not do this? So yes, my upbringing was very very colourful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, didn't? It's so funny because we we shared two things as well. I'm a middle child from a family of five and you know there's something they say about this middle child they seem to be the balanced child, where they they know how to walk their way around and know how to be diplomatic and so forth. And sometimes I'm not always diplomatic, but sometimes I say what I think. But I think one thing that is interesting, because when I started my journey into networking, I used to always go to when I, you know, was worried oh my gosh, who am I going to speak to? I will always go to the most mature person in the room. I feel like this person will teach me more than somebody who probably look like me, my age and whatsoever. So you know who I'm going to learn the most. Let me go to that person with white hair and, you know, big belly, because I'm feeling that you know they're probably looking like oh my gosh, this one needs help and they, they come and naturally want to mentor me and that's literally what happened. Okay, we did not have all big belly because we were just women, uh, but yes, it was something that I did and, and you know.
Speaker 2:It's something about this it is beautiful is that I think I always believe that people are continuously learning other happiest people, because when you, when you're conscious learning, you're always doing something that excites you, and and there's so much beauty into that, I agree. So now I'm trying to think about you. Know, we talked about your power. Your father was your biggest influence outside your family. Was anybody else who also played a big part in in the sorrow that we know now, or were you always that type of that? We heard that you're that type of person, but there's somebody else who also influence you.
Speaker 1:I would say it was mostly my family, because we kind of kept together, we didn't really venture outside. As you know, being of Nigerian descent family is important and you know my father would often reiterate that it's a village that builds, you know that raises the children. So we weren't really allowed, in all all honesty, to go out much and venture outside because, you know, having seven sisters and two brothers, what you going out to look for, looking for, you know. So, um, we kind of found inspiration in each other. My immediate brother, you know we almost behaved like twins.
Speaker 1:You know he inspired me a lot because I often wanted to be like him, I often wanted to achieve like him, I often wanted to achieve most of the things that he achieved. So I would say that men have had a really positive influence in my life, and mother often says now is why she calls me a lioness because you know, my biggest cheerleaders and also the biggest individuals in my life that have inspired me have been men. So men so say that my biggest inspiration was my father and also my older brother, moses.
Speaker 2:Do you know? It's funny because I remember talking to Sebastian on one of on one of the episodes that we did before and he said that it will always look people who are slightly ahead of him to give you that inspiration and innovative, and I love that you have that approach. I'm saying I'm saying that out loud for people listening in terms of how you can grow, shouldn't be in a room where you feel that you're the, you know, the cleverest person in the room, the look of the opposite, and I think that's there's so much beauty into that. Sometimes you might be, you know, especially if you're the keynote speaker. Sometimes you know you, you want to be in those rooms where you feel like, wow, there's so much of I can learn, you know, being around, being around those people, isn't it?
Speaker 1:I absolutely agree. I think that, you know, the more you're able to sit in rooms, that allows you to venture into the unknown, that allows you to get your creative juices going. I think the more you have to draw from and the greater your perspective. But if you're constantly in a room where you're the smartest, you're the most creative, you're the most accomplished, then you kind of become a little bit stagnant. And we know what happens with stagnancy Stagnancy kind of, you know, breeds a stench.
Speaker 1:So I absolutely agree with you, I make it, you know, one of my purpose in life to always find myself in rooms that I've never been invited to, because I want to know. What do you know that I need to know, and it will then foster that change, it will foster growth and it will also foster new relationships, because I recently had a conversation with a great dear friend of mine and she said something to me that really has stuck with me. She said, sarah, what got you here is not what's going to get you there. So what got me here today was great for today, but what's going to get me there tomorrow will require me to enter into a new room with a different, you know, perspective and that requires being uncomfortable, isn't it?
Speaker 2:it's normalizing that discomfort for growth. Nothing happens. And when you say that all the time nothing happens in that comfort zone, did you know from a very young age what you wanted to study, or were you influenced by your parents in terms of your education choices?
Speaker 1:I'm certainly not influenced by my parents, which is which is a good thing, because my father is very, very liberal and he sort of he just encouraged you to do whatever it is that you wanted to do, but he was big on education. You are going to go to university, you're going to get a master's, you're going to do X, y and Z. I didn't. I never got the master's. I stopped at the degree, you know.
Speaker 1:But I I realized from a very early age that I had a passion for um, for business. You know, I often would go to the shop, um with my mother's money and I would try and bargain and try and get as much out of that 50 pence that she has given me, you know. And um, I realized that I had a passion also for people relationships are very, very important to me when I was. And I realized that I had a passion also for people Relationships are very, very important to me when I was younger and I realized very quickly that I was, I had this talent to get people to think the way that I wanted them to think. Now, some people call that manipulation. I don't, I don't call it manipulation.
Speaker 2:Can you give us an example so people can understand that it's not manipulation?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, for example, you know I would go around to the shopkeeper, I would build a relationship with him because I was genuinely interested in how he became a shopkeeper and why is it that he was open till 11 pm at night and where he slept, and you know how much money he would make in that day and what I could do to help him make money. And he made a deal with me. He said, sarah, he made a deal with me. He said, sarah, if you can get five of your friends to come in and buy this chocolate bar which is a chomp bar, as you know, I think it was 10 pence then you know, get them to buy one each, which is equivalent to 50p. So five times well, 10 times five is 50 I will give you one for free. You don't need to give me your money. So I was like I can do that. So that meant that if I can get five of my friends to buy one each that's 50 pence I will get one for free and I'll still have that 50 pence that my mum had given me.
Speaker 1:So I went about my day in primary school trying to get all my friends to put together their pocket money and go to the shop with me to buy this Trump bar and, lo and behold, I got seven friends to do it, and that made me realise that you know, if you're able to have a conversation with the shopkeeper, you know, remember, I was very used to being around older people, so me having a conversation with him was not out of my comfort zone. I was able to get to know a little bit about him, what he did to make money. I was then able to then go into school with that information. Encourage my friends to come along with me on this journey. So you see, they got something out of it because I was able to get them a chocolate bar and I got something in return as well. So, all in all, it worked out for every party involved love it, love it and it's a, it's a great.
Speaker 2:This is what business is about. I think often people think that business is about, okay, I win and you lose, to the dance on. But actually, great business always find a a way to bring great equity and that's why I shouldn't feel like you're being robbed and you feel like you have, you know, buyer's remorse and whatsoever. Yeah, you win, I win, everybody's happy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think what that instilled for me from a very young age is collaboration. If you collaborate with other individuals, you will build bigger and you will improve and get better as well. So throughout my entire journey, if I was to sit down and reflect on how I got to where I am today, it's through collaboration, through getting somebody on board, getting them to believe in my vision, but also me understanding their vision and seeing if there's an alignment in the two visions and with that alignment we can create magic together 100%.
Speaker 2:So what did you study? I studied history of art.
Speaker 1:Wow, very different. So I studied history of art. I also did quite a lot of performance arts as well. I went to the Brit school, you know, and the Brit school was the best thing that happened to me, you know. It just allowed me to be a little bit creative and also think outside of the box. That was my first encounter with artists and we did a lot of crazy things, lots of avant-garde. You know, I remember there was a performance, an avant-garde performance, where we had to find a bathtub right, a disposed bathtub. Oh God, we brought it to the school and we filled it up with baked beans Right and we sat in it as a live performance art.
Speaker 1:And in my thinking I thought, if my mother can see what she's wasting her money on, she'll be like Sarah, what are you doing? But it liberated me. It made me realise, sarah, anything is considered art. You've got to be as creative as possible. Brick school really championed that in me and really brought that out of me. So I can do anything to be creative enough to get a deal done. You know, I can get the buyers to come on board with me on this journey as long as I have that conviction that it's going to bring about, you know, equity for them. Bring about, you know, return on investment for them.
Speaker 1:You know, I don't really have any inhibition, you know, because of my schooling and because of the things that I studied as well, you know, I went to, I did a little bit of Lambda as well. So, again, the creatives I was part of the Old Vic theatre group and I did a performance there with Kevin Spacey the 24 hour play and what that did for me, it pushed me right into the deep end. So, for anybody who knows what the 24 hour play is, a 24 hour play is within 24 hours. They've got to get 24 actors right and writers and directors, and you've got to create a play within 24 hours and perform it within 24 hours as well. So that really allowed me to think on my feet.
Speaker 1:That really allowed me to be quite spontaneous and, whilst I'm not doing theatre now, you know that is something that I have really used in my day-to-day experience and also um, I say experience and also dealings with clients. I've always got to be thinking of my feet. I've always got to be thinking of my feet. I've always got to be finding a way out for them. I've always got to be finding another option. And, having done, having gone through the creative arts, it's allowed me not to be so rigid, not to be so set in my ways or stuck in my thought, and have this in mind at all times that, sarah, there is always a way out.
Speaker 2:There is always a way out and I cannot, cannot agree enough. And you know, what you're describing here is it's mindset. Mindset helps you be solution minded. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. You know some people, as you say, you say, oh my gosh, you do so much, you know, and because in my mind as well I have, I could look at a problem, but I'd rather just focus on the solution. A lot of people just have to complain. I don't have time to complain.
Speaker 1:I do not see problems. You know, if somebody was to describe myself, I describe myself as a solution provider, because there is always a way out. We've just got to be creative enough to find that way out 100%.
Speaker 2:So how do you go from history to property? That is a message.
Speaker 1:You see, it's funny that, because you know, I always feel that, you know, the journey of life is a very interesting one and nothing happens by accident. So when my mother and I you know, obviously, you know, we are of Nigerian descent, as I mentioned earlier, and when my mother came to this country, we were fortunate enough to be living with, you know, extended family member. But we all know that sometimes you can outgrow your welcome, um, and you know it was very, very nice. But, you know, you become conscious that you're living in somebody else's home. And so my mother decided to take matters into her own hand and decided that it was about time that she got a property of her own for myself and her, because my siblings then were in Nigeria, so it was just myself and my mother oh, can I ask you a question?
Speaker 2:why would you have a chosen one to be with your mum?
Speaker 1:I keep telling you I'm special yeah, do you know?
Speaker 2:you're laughing about it because I am the same. So my mum same thing, she so same thing. My two older sisters were in Cameroon and she only brought me back. That's what I'm saying. This is so weird.
Speaker 1:It's just weird. My younger ones came after me, but I was the chosen one. I was a chosen child, I think also again, because I was always around the adults. If anyone was going to get picked, it was probably me, because I was the one that everybody remembered. Again a bit of a slumber, so okay.
Speaker 1:So again a bit so okay, so, yeah, so my mother took it into her own hands to um find a property. But I think what my mama, my mother, did not sort of envisage was how difficult that process would be. And you know, then there was an incredible waiting list and it was a little bit different, because you have to queue up outside the housing office, you know, going register, get a ticket and wait, and if they had seen everybody that they wanted to see that day, then you have to come back the next day. Now my mother was a working mother. She had to sort of requalify, you know, to be able to get a decent job here, and you know she was doing cleaning jobs, all these menial jobs that nobody else wanted to do, and when she found that her effort wasn't really reaping any positive results, I remember that day that she came to get me from school, which was a little bit unusual because my mother never, never, came to collect me from school.
Speaker 1:I often used to get on the bus by myself, but on this occasion she came to pick me up from school and I noticed that she was carrying a black bag and I was really curious as to what was inside the black bag. Now, it's not out of the ordinary for my mother to carry bags because she often donated clothes to the local charity shop, so I just assumed that it was one of her donations. But little did I know she had a plan. So we got, went to McDonald's in Brixton, she got me McDonald's and we went to the housing office on Lambeth Hill um office on Lambeth Hill and when we got there she took out this duvet and she then delivered the message to me that we were going to be sleeping outside the housing office to which.
Speaker 1:I was shocked. I said no way, mummy. She said, sarah, this is the only way we're going to get a house. Do you enjoy sleeping in a room with me? Do you enjoy not having your own room? Do you enjoy this? You enjoy that? Now, obviously, as a child, you know um an 11 year old I did not enjoy it, so I kind of had to do what she was um asking me to do and we slept there. Yeah, and it was.
Speaker 2:It was my first taste of homelessness was it during spring or wasn't during the winter?
Speaker 1:it was spring, it wasn't winter. My mother's on that palace. She'd be there on her own, but yeah, no, it was spring. I remember it's going to be good, she'll be there on her own, but yeah, no, it was spring. I remember it was a little after my birthday.
Speaker 2:But sometimes, you know, as I said, sometimes you get to a point where, if you want something so much you have to take desperate measures. You realise that it doesn't matter how early you wake up, you're always going to be, you know, at some point, not there?
Speaker 1:So going to be, you know, at some point. Not there, so I was like you know what.
Speaker 1:I'm going to stay there, so I just I'm at the front of the queue. From the start, absolutely that day I got taught a lesson in resilience and a lesson in never accepting no as an answer and a lesson in being committed to yourself at all costs. So we were, we slept outside and it's funny because the next day we were the first in the queue. The housing officer saw us there and she was just shocked. You know that we had slept there overnight and you know we got our housing accommodation that day. It was a studio apartment but nonetheless it was nice.
Speaker 1:It was myself and my mother's and it was in west norwood and from there my mother started her property journey because, also, you know, from doing cleaning jobs, all these menial jobs, she was able to build a property portfolio of six properties within a very small space of time. And that's because she experienced such discomfort that she realized that she's got to have assets working as hard for her as she is working for herself. And that also left a bitter taste in my mouth as to why it is. I detest homelessness, I detest poverty and I detest lack and also why I feel that people of colour are not given the right information for us to make informed decisions from an early age.
Speaker 2:Yes, that's so true. And it's true that you know if you're born in yeah, if you're born in wealth, you hear this conversation or your parents will naturally bring you to those conversations all the time. But if you don't in wealth, you hear this conversation or your parents will naturally bring you into those conversations all the time. But if you don't know and also I don't know for you, but I think about the generation my parents came here but never with the intention of staying, so therefore their mind was never into okay, there's no point to get pretty because we're going to go back to Africa.
Speaker 1:That's how it is with their generation. Their intention was never to stay here. It was literally to come over here for maybe greener pastures, but to work and then with that view of always returning back home.
Speaker 2:Good. So it's funny because you talk about your father being your biggest inspiration, but would you say he moved into phases Because you've seen your mom going through extreme cases of you know what I'm going to get, what I need need to get and I'm not taking no for an answer. Do you think that that evolution of influence change?
Speaker 1:no, it's, it's not changed because, again, you know, I saw this lady who was doing cleaning jobs uh, multiple jobs, you know, we call it early morning, afternoon shift and evening shift. I saw her acquire wealth for herself and now she's financially independent, she has financial freedom and when most of her you know, her friends cannot retire, she retired and she lives very comfortably. So she has always been somebody that I have looked up to and somebody that has championed me again to move forwards. You know, it's very, I believe that you know, you know some of your, some of the people that inspire you don't have to be so far away from you.
Speaker 1:They can be so close in, within easy reach as well, and that way you can have a look at their journey and you can see the authenticity of their journey as well. You know, when we read about people's stories and books, you know I love it, I believe it to be the truth. But when I'm seeing the real thing play before my eyes, you know I can't question the legitimacy of it. So you know, and also, coming from my mother, you know she didn't really go to school, you know, not very accomplished in terms of academics, but she was still able to do this thing. So I love the fact that I had that closeness with her and I still have that closeness with her. I still have that closeness with my father and my siblings and, off the back of my family's story, I've been able to help myself and also help others. So I don't believe that you need to go too far out to look for people who inspire you. They may be really within your home.
Speaker 2:Yeah, most of the time, as you say yourself, they're very close and that's why I always say to parents pay attention to what you do, not what you say, because that's how your kids will behave. You know, it's something like in a relationship don't listen to what they say, but look, you know, pay attention to what they do. That tells you a lot about themselves, isn't it?
Speaker 1:It was practical steps and I think that's sometimes what some people miss from books. You know you can read the book. It can tell you the practical steps that you need to do. But you know, I'm seeing the practical steps, I'm seeing how it works out.
Speaker 1:You know, at the age of 17, from what I've seen my mother do, or did rather, I went and I tried to get a mortgage at the age of 17 from it was then the Woolwich Building Society and I realized well, I can actually get a mortgage, providing that I've got a job. And that ignited something in me. My mother she saved money. We had a passbook so I was unable to withdraw the money, but she was able to put money in. So it's a passbook account and she was saving money for me every single week. So I can see how money was growing based on her performance. But also when we bought our first property, our council property, that also demonstrated to me that we only paid 60 000 pounds for this property, but the property is now worth half a million pounds again, I sought savings and investments.
Speaker 1:saving is dependent on you constantly topping up. Investment grows itself, even whilst you're sleeping, and I realised then I don't want to be saving, I need to be investing in order to create wealth.
Speaker 2:As we continue this engaging conversation, remember that Black Rise is more than just a podcast. We're a dynamic platform where businesses can connect, collaborate and prosper with Black professionals, entrepreneurs and Black-owned companies. Our commitment to diversity, inclusion and empowerment reshapes industries and builds a future where Black excellence thrives globally. So don't forget to subscribe and give us a five-star review on iTunes. It's interesting. What you say is that. And the thing about the parents right now listening to this is that how are you also creating capital to make it easy for your kids to be able to start with an easier life? It doesn't have.
Speaker 2:I think that sometimes that mindset it has to be difficult, they have to go for all of these things. I don't really have to. I think they have to definitely leave their own lessons. It doesn't have to be difficult because, trust me, within other communities they set the kids for success with trust and so on and so on. So there's some element of that and sometimes I think again to me this is why I want to be also addressed for a black rice platform is that how much should you be saving? How much should you be investing?
Speaker 2:I think people don't really know, so they put we don't know how much. So we just save. You know I've been in situations, so I'm not going to lie, so this is something that I learned as well Put too much on your saving, you realize. Well, you give actually your money to the bank to invest your money, right? Well, how much of this should you be investing? You know what is, and I think this whole I mean A-state planning is not really clear or big for and for for few people, and this is something that I really want to solve, because the black capital needs to improve, because right now it's really really at the bottom. It doesn't make sense when we have so much capabilities and you know knowledge and you know as a community feeling about what we can do as a group, we can do so much more. So I don't know how you feel, sarah.
Speaker 1:I think this is the case, for you know cognitive dissonance right. You know how you present things to people that already have a very strong belief in them. And for myself, you know it's not about trying to change what they believe in. It's about giving them an alternative, giving them the facts and presenting it in a way where it will sit better with them, because often when you're challenging people, it's very difficult to get them to change their mind. So what I'm doing with the women that I empower, that I help, and also with my children, is that I'm able to filter the information. I understand that people learn differently, and let's take example of my children and these women. I give them visual stimulants, I show them what it is that we're investing in, I show them how it started and I show them how it's going, and I also show them how it's ended as well. You know, and for my children, you know I'm going to be honest with you they should never have to start where I started. I think that's a great disservice. I feel like that's one of the things that will kind of measure whether or not I've been a good mother and a good sort of provider. They should never start where I started, but they should start where I finished. But in order for them to have an appreciation of what I have done and I think that my friends often laugh at me when I tell them this they're going to rent off of me. I agree, I agree with you, they're going to rent off of me and they're going to understand what it means and how money works and why it's called currency, because in order for it to grow, you've got to let it go. And also, they need to understand the difference between being an employer and an employee, because we never speak about that either. Right, and whilst it was never shown to me or sort of explained to me the difference between an employer and an employee, I understand from my experience that being an employer allows me to be more creative, because an employer is constantly wanting to generate income and generate wealth 100%. So we've got to get them from an early age.
Speaker 1:We've got to get the mother, because if we're able to get the mother, we'll get the entire family, and that's one of the reasons why I'm big on women's empowerment.
Speaker 1:Women are the engine room of their homes. We may not have the money, but, believe you me, we're able to get people to come around to our way of thinking and I've noticed that the least informed member of the family is the mother, but she makes some of the biggest decisions. So if we're able to champion and empower that woman with financial literacy, with how to grow the black pound, she will instill that into her children from an early age. She will take it on and empower her friends, her community, et cetera, et cetera, because we naturally we don't incubate things, we want to share it, we want to tell everybody about it and so if we're able to address that and encourage women that numbers are not scary, they're very simple. You operate with numbers every single day and if you're able to understand these numbers and impart this information on your children, we're able to break cycles, we're able to break generational cycles. That isn't helping us, will definitely not help our children and will not help our gender or our race.
Speaker 2:You didn't tell us more about about that. But I would like to come back to how did you get into property, because we got into this and I also want to know how I think and also people want to know how you, how you know, what you explain, how did you go about it? But, yes, so tell us about your journey to property. How did that happen to now you becoming your own company owner and a great thing that you do to also make an impact yeah.
Speaker 1:So I had my first real estate job with foxton's, the big f as we were. So we call them the big f. Well, we internally we call it the big f right, because you know foxons, they're bold, brash, unapologetic, they're the most expensive in terms of their fee. They've got their branded, branded mini. So you know they're in your face, they're not going to sort of apologize for it. So that's why we call it the big F, the big machine. So I started working for Foxen's many, many years ago. My tenure with them was just a little under 11 years and I sort of discovered them whilst working in Selfridges. So I've always been in sales. Sales has always been my passion to do with. You know the human contact I was always interested in. But the reason why I went for that interview with Foxen's was because my, my best friend then told me that they were giving out free Foxen's minis.
Speaker 2:Listen, it's a great incentive everybody. I remember you know my part of my. My second car was a Mini Cooper, so I, I love it.
Speaker 1:I loved it. I was like brilliant, I've just passed my driving test. I needed a new car. Again, I'm being strategic Go and work for Foxton's and you'll get a free Foxton's Mini. And so I did.
Speaker 1:Now you know, remember, I have been raised to not accept no for an answer. So when I went for that interview, it was so funny, the. So when I went for that interview, it was so funny. The person who interviewed me the area director, then, amazing man, he said Sarah, you look high maintenance. I don't think you will be able to survive this cutthroat industry. And I said well, why would you think that? Look at you, you're so beautifully dressed, you've got your hair. You know this is a very aggressive, male dominated environment. Sarah, do you think you can do it? I said, of course I can do it. You don't even know me, you don't know my background, you don't know where I've come from, and so, lo and behold, I did do it and I was one of their biggest operators and I loved working with oxen.
Speaker 1:I love the. You know the meritocracy system. You know I love the fact that I can control my own income. You know everything was very commission-based. You know I could. I could earn as much as I wanted income. You know everything was very commission based. You know I could. I could earn as much as I wanted to, you know. And also, the harder I worked, the more I made and I got more and more, you know, expensive cars.
Speaker 1:So I really, really enjoyed it and it showed me rather it demonstrated to me the importance of sales and getting it right. And also, though you work for this company, people buy into you. You know I represent Foxton's, but they're buying into me, they're buying into my energy, they're buying into my knowledge. Am I knowledgeable? Can I stand next to my peer? Can I deliver the same and be, you know, exude a spirit of excellence, and from working with Foxton's I understood that. You know the brand will get you through the door, the name will get you through the door, but your excellence and your knowledge will secure the deal for you. So I've really learned to lead in knowledge and I became one of the most knowledgeable people there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, do you know what? It's interesting? Because it's a very I've done some work with a meta on the property industry and it's a very male dominated. So I'm curious, male but also white, oh gosh, and so on. So I'm curious in terms of how did you not let get it to you and was used, used standard by beauty, naturally, but being that beauty and obviously brain, thank God you have the two. And but yes, how did you not let you know the, you know the remarks or whatever you had to do?
Speaker 1:for I don't know if you had to go through this I did.
Speaker 1:I went through a lot. Sometimes it was very in your face and sometimes it was very subtle, but nonetheless I went through a lot. We need to accept that real estate is a historically exclusive world, started by white people very family orientated. They passed deals around the family, around their close-knit circles. So me coming into this world was a real eye-opener. But again, because of my foundation, because of my upbringing, because of my father encouraging me to constantly have conversation with people of authority and not being frightened or not feeling overwhelmed you know, overwhelmed I was able to really navigate my way through it. But remember again, just to touch on what I said previously, my father encouraged me that. You know he'd already set the tone for me. Sarah, you're going to have a challenging time because you're black and because you're a girl, right? So I encourage you to lead in knowledge. And because I was able to lead knowledge, because I was able to find out as much information about the property, about the pounds per square foot, about location, about postcodes, about developers, I was able to demonstrate that I deserved to be in that room.
Speaker 1:Now, did my colour often prevent me from getting seen? Of course it did. You know I would have people saying Sarah, you know, the only reason why they're inviting you is because you're black and you're a girl and you've got to tick that tick box of inclusivity. And what did that do to me? Did it make me feel rejected? Yeah, it made me feel a little bit rejected, but also it made me realize that at some point I would need to get out of this room and create my own room for myself. So whilst it was difficult, it was very, very difficult. I enjoyed it. I sat in that discomfort and I made the best out of a very difficult situation and I was constantly proving myself.
Speaker 1:So when my colleague said to me, sarah, it's because you're black, I said well, do you know what? The color of my skin has not done anything for me so far. So if it's going to get me into a room or get me into, you know, a department, absolutely it better something for me. But again, you know I've come in with my facts. You know I have been the biggest operator for X amount of months. I have done the biggest sale.
Speaker 1:I have been, you know, sales associate, top sales associate, for X amount of years. I have never dropped in terms of my figures. So it must be more than my gender and it must be more than my color. But if I'm going to use that to my advantage, I will do, and I think women of color should do. It's about time we started leading in our gender, leading in our color and putting our hands up. And if we're able to demonstrate this in a very, very strategic way, then by all means do. But I enjoyed it, I made the most of it and I made sure I made enough money to get out of it yeah, you know, it's definitely what people say to me.
Speaker 2:I say you guys do it all the time. You definitely use your privilege to get into some of the places. So I'm going to do exactly the same thing and I'm not ashamed. And when people get upset, they're like why are you getting upset? That's what everybody does exactly. And if I get that because I'm a woman or because I'm black, I'm definitely going to take it absolutely. But, thank you, good luck for you, you know. So there's this feeling that you can always turn the negative into positive. And you know people, you know I say to people that people will always have an opinion. So you better do what you want to do, because that would never, you know, progress.
Speaker 1:I said to my children I'm full of it. I said to my children have a right to their opinion and you have a right not to have to listen to their opinion. Let them have their opinion. I have to listen to it. It's just an opinion. It's just an opinion 100.
Speaker 2:Definitely do not tell me to go on on twitter because it's very toxic. So tell us about now. So you, you're doing really well. You could have obviously had a big f for a very long time and you know, mini cooper, at some point you kind of want to upgrade. So what happened?
Speaker 1:oh, but whilst I was at foxhands, I really upgraded very quickly, so I did not leave with a mini cooper. In fact, I was after that mini cooper in less than five months, you know, which is another record that I broke. So, yes, you don't stay in a mini cooper forever. In fact, it was a bit of a disgrace to be seen in that minicooper. That meant that you were still at the bottom.
Speaker 2:Oh next time I buzzed, okay, when I see someone with a minicooper. Oh, you just started they're rookies, they're starters.
Speaker 1:You know we were operating the Ferrari, the Lamborghinis, what? Yeah, absolutely, we had the Jaguars. So if you're dealing with those kind of vehicles, we call them the supercars. We know that you are a big operator, you're at the top of your game. So it's very status status thing, but it's fine if you've worked hard for it.
Speaker 2:By all means have it wow, I just learned something new over there, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1:So, in terms of you know, um, where I'm at today. Obviously you know I'm the co-founder and residential director at Uho, boff Stephen, which is the buyer's agent, and you know how I explain this to people who ask is that you know, if you think about a traditional estate agent like Foxton's, they work and they represent the seller Right. So we, as a buyer's agent, we represent and we work for the buyer. So you've got the two agents working together to get the best outcome. And my team and I, we have 30 years of combined experience. Myself I've got around 15.
Speaker 1:And we find it well, myself and my team, we find it very, very fulfilling to be able to source, negotiate and secure properties on behalf of our clients. Now, whether it's a private residence or second home, or maybe they want to build a buy-to-let portfolio, we will definitely do our best to find the best property and we often do so. In. All in all, it's a bespoke service which requires us to listen very carefully to our clients. Brief, and I would also say ambition as well, you know, because they have something in mind that they're trying to achieve, whether it's to grow wealth or whether it's to preserve their wealth, you know, dependent on where they're, where they're from. If they're an international client, you know. So we need to understand from the get-go what is the ambition of this buyer and make sure that we stay on course to deliver.
Speaker 2:Love that, I mean I just I love that like I've never heard of this, because we did an event together and it was just so good we talked about. It's interesting because people love residential investment. People love commercial investment. I prefer commercial just because I don't have time, you know, to deal with people and we can do it for you.
Speaker 1:You don't need to do, don't need to do it.
Speaker 2:No, but you know what? That's the thing, right? So people have probably everybody go with their preconceived ideas. This is the thing. So maybe part of what I also would like to discuss with you is that what are all the preconceived ideas that stop themselves from making a variety of investment? And I'll give you some Zach I things that, uh, you know, I just bought a house, I don't know if I could get another mortgage and so on. So what? I think that you know we want to demystify about property investment right now yeah.
Speaker 1:So you know, we often hear the whole you know I don't have enough capital, I don't have enough this, I don't have enough that. Well, you can co-invest. Yes, you can. Yeah. And what's so funny, I came across co-investing by accident, right, because obviously, you know, I came across it whilst I was at fox and remember I was always curious as to what was going on and I found that and it kind of broke my heart because most of the buyers that I would do I was dealing with were never black. You know, they were often white, caucasian or Asians and I found that particularly amongst the Asian group, there were lots of co-investors.
Speaker 1:So brothers co-investing, friends from university co-investing, the Chinese they do it very well co-investing and I realized, well, actually you don't have to even be related to somebody to co-invest, put your monies together and when you co-invest you actually can get something bigger right, and also you share the risks as well. You've got somebody to go on that journey with you, so you don't have to sit there and think, oh, I've not got enough money. I've had a consortium of people we just recently done one with women residing in Nigeria where we had 10 women co-invest to buy something. So it can definitely be done, but again one needs to, you know, encourage oneself to think outside of the box and think of how you can collaborate. Now I understand that. You know, within our community, you know unity is not our biggest forte, right for me for many reasons.
Speaker 2:I think there's a thing about chinese. Is chinese I think about? Can maybe asians have a different cast whatsoever? But think about just nigerian. I mean, we'll just come and come on 40, 45 dialects. Yeah, we are so subdivided and yeah, again same thing. You know that's where the complexity comes in, isn't it with us?
Speaker 1:absolutely. But then that's where the whole you know, the re-education comes into it. And also, you know, if we're looking at our generation or even the gen z's, you know we we have a different experience right to the older generation, so we know that. You know there can be things like contracts put in place as well. So even if you have a distrust of people, there's a contract there that is there to make sure that it looks after your best interest as well. So if somebody said that they don't have enough capital, there are ways around it, and I would definitely sort of suggest the whole co-investing route as well.
Speaker 1:Now, in terms of somebody saying that you know, I've just got a property, I can't get a second mortgage, of course you can. You know you can even get a second mortgage via a business. You know, and you know that's something that people don't always consider. You know and, and that business is based on, you know you buying a buy to let property and the numbers from that is what rent can you get on that property? Right, and then also in terms of you know taxation, you don't have to pay as much tax as well because it's via a company. So there are all these other options that can be presented to you, but you've got to be committed to wanting to have another vehicle vehicle as an asset, making money for you as well.
Speaker 1:So, yes, I think that the traditional way of you know investing. You know things have changed, things have evolved. You know we've things have been redefined. You know things have been regenerated to make it flexible for different types of people from different walks of life, you know. And then you've got the ones where you know we do this often where women or men invest with us and we give them a great return on their investments. So, for example, we know that with most investment options out there, you can get anything from about 3% to five percent for eight percent, because we want to incentivize it for you, we want to make it attractive, and that's a very hands-off approach, right, so you don't need to do anything. So you're investing in in commercial assets, you're getting your return on investment and then you get your principal investment back at the end of the once your money matures yes, can I?
Speaker 2:Can I ask a question about how much people? Well, that sounds good, but how much would it take to invest with your growth?
Speaker 1:Yes, normally our minimum ticket is £50,000. But again, because we're trying to encourage more people to invest, especially women to invest Remember I said that if you get the mother, you get the whole community. You know we have lowered our ticket to £25,000. So with an investment of £25,000, you will get 8% return on investment annually.
Speaker 2:Would you suggest that, for example, if we listen to this again, like as 25, you can put 25 as a group, or do you say 25 per person?
Speaker 1:In all honesty, you know it's normally 25 per person, but what we have done you know. Again, I've got two sisters who are really wanting to invest. They wanted to start their investment journey, so we said, okay, well, the two of you can put 25,000 pounds together, you know, and we can. Even. You know, I can stretch as much as three, but nothing more than three because, again, we want them to get their return on investment. Yes, you know, once it comes like 10 or 50 and it becomes a little bit defeatist, you know, because they're not, they're not making any money.
Speaker 1:No, and also one thing that we do offer with these women that invest with us is that we want to educate you. So you have access to our leaders. We also do mentoring sessions as well. You have access to our private events because we want you, at the end of your tenure, the end of when your money matures, to be able to invest yourself, to co-invest with another woman in the group. That means buy an asset, you know, not exactly, we put it in a fund if you want, but have something that you can, something tangible that you can say at the end of me investing with Rehope of Property Group. This is what I have brought out of it as well. So we want to empower you to make an informed decision that's going to benefit you today, but fuel your tomorrow.
Speaker 2:Love that, love that, and you can find this information on your website, right?
Speaker 1:Yes, you can find it on the website or you can email me. We have a private women's investment group that we can send you out all the information that you need, but we really have to encourage it. You know, I recently started a women's executive course and one thing I really did notice is that, you know, women of color were bankable bankable we are so talented but we don't do ourself any justice by not coming out of this box or this cage that we have put ourselves in, or this cage that we have put ourselves in, and unless we take these calculated risks, nothing is going to change. And often it's not that we don't have the money, we have the money. You know, I was saying to my mother mommy, I have calculated how much you have made in a short space of time and you've made an absolute killing.
Speaker 1:Because you know there's this thing that you know we do as Nigerians I'm sure it's quite prevalent in in the black community but we call it agile, which is partner, where a group of people come together and they put money together each month, then one person collects it this month, the other person collects it that month, etc. Etc. Now I said, if you're able to invest the money that you have collected. That money is then making money for you. Now I see that as a businesswoman, and some of the most astute businesswomen that I know have been aunties and mums, etc. Etc.
Speaker 1:So it's not that we don't have the brain capacity to think about ways in which to make money, but because it's presented to us in the way that we find difficult to digest. Yes, that's why we don't do it and that's why we're offering an alternative where it's a very hands-off approach. You invest x amounts of money. We'll give you a return on investment, but whilst you're with us, we're going to educate you. We're going to take you to our buildings, we're going to show you where we started and how we've ended up, and show you the entire journey without little risk to yourself, so that you are then empowered to do the same on your own.
Speaker 2:You know, I know we're on podcast, but you give me a great idea because I think what you're saying could be quag. I know it was a tech company who did this. They try to read that idea of you. Know everybody let's say everybody put a 25 woman, you put a thousand pound every month. Only certain you get the 25K and so on. So each month, especially if you're doing around, you know that's a lot of months, but if you do around 10 people, so that's 12 months or 12 people, you know that you can invest into Reaboof.
Speaker 1:One month after the other you have a new exactly I was about to say you know, you've got that. That will make you be committed. Because you've got to. You need to understand that you can't break the chain right and you not being committed is going to mess it up for somebody else and that will also. That will also test your level of discipline as well, because you don't want to hear any story like, oh, I've got bills to pay this month, or I couldn't do it this month, no, no, no. It's uncomfortable for the bigger picture. This is where your future self is championing your present self to make it so that your future self can have a more comfortable life. Right, you're constantly bringing those excuses. Oh, you know, I've got a credit card to pay, I've got this to pay. You've got to know what your priorities are, need to cut back in order to step up yes, step up, step up when the time comes.
Speaker 2:This is so good. I really like this conversation. I think there's so much we need to learn and this is what I'm looking forward about having your voices on the platform to just understand that journey. You know, it's funny because when I started my journey into property investment, I just had one pound, and what I mean is that I just invested in stock property portfolio. You know, may make some returns, but obviously it's not the most effective way to really make big, big, big, big cash. But yeah, there's always a way, as I say, like there's always a way. I think what we're trying to say to people is that get started. You don't have to start this with, you know, you know 50k investment, but get started and diversify as much as possible. And we know that property has always been a, you know, safe bet to make, because Safe option yeah it is you see it?
Speaker 1:nobody's going to come and steal it. It's there in front of you, right, Seeing your investment in brick and mortar.
Speaker 2:Tell us about your vision. What is your vision? I know that one thing that we are both also does is you also cross over the the element of religious groups. You know that people can have access to that. What is that? I feel like it's one of the usb, am I wrong?
Speaker 1:no, no, absolutely we are. We believe in impacting our community. You know, we believe in giving back, but we don't believe in handouts no, thank you historically due to, you know, circumstances beyond our control.
Speaker 1:Right, we have had to put our hands out.
Speaker 1:We've had to have this Oliver Twist narrative of more sir, please, and we're often at the mercy of the person who is giving us something.
Speaker 1:So we want to turn that around right and we want to go into our community and predominantly you know the faith groups as well the churches. So you know, that's how Rehab of Property Group started by finding and acquiring abandoned, derelict properties, and we have revitalized them, we've repurposed them and brought them back into community use. Now we understand that in order for us to impact our community, we need to go into the community, and what we're finding is that some of these faith groups are the ones who have the innovative ideas to impact their communities because they know their communities. So, whether it's the food bank initiative which we see, which was really, really positive during the COVID times and also during the cost of living crisis as well, whether it's upskilling individuals that you know want to go back into the workplace but don't really have that confidence, whether it's mentoring session, the church, the faith group, does this. So that has been our sort of foundation. It is our heartbeat in order for us to measure our legacy.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's really it's. You know, it's interesting, so I'll interrupt you. But so I'm doing this interview and I'm in with you and I'm in. I'm in paris right now. So when I arrived, mom was just watching tv. I said what are you watching? So I said, oh, I'm watching this channel. So it's this religious channel that every day they put you know people, can they do this seven day of miracles, seven weeks a week of miracles, and you go for. So the guy just like prays. It feels like, you know, I'm a meditator person, but I will see. I believe meditation is also the element of prayers. I is also the element of prayers. I'm just, you know, I'm just relaxing after work. I'm falling asleep with this in the background, but you know, I just think like wow, there's some religious out there who are very, have high capital, right For you to have your own TV channel you must be doing really, really well.
Speaker 2:So but that is also as an element of faith and element is also recognizing that behind this is people who have a power of investing in a way that also makes sense to give back to the community, and I think that this is a win-win situation yeah, I think for us also is that you know that's a great point that you have made and you know we see this visually on, you know, obviously on tv, etc, etc.
Speaker 1:but again, what makes us different is that we own the building right. We buy the building and then when the faith group wants to buy off of us, we can determine, you know, by their reputation, whether or not they are the best fit and whether or not we feel they have the capacity to carry out. You know the impact, the social impact that we stand for. So again, it's about the visions being aligned, you know, the legacy mindset being aligned and because we never really leave the community, we are there to make sure that we're able to measure that impact as well.
Speaker 2:Good, it's very important and this is what comes back to the importance of setting values when you create a business. This is where me putting my branding hats. But also you know commercial sense because you can make a lot of money. But also you know commercial sense because you can have a. You can make a lot of money, but if you don't have any values that you stand for, you're going to create a toxic environment. You create yeah, I have the wrong people. People don't stand the same thing. They behave in a in a wrong way and I always believe that, whether it's you speaking to the client, she'll feel exactly the same. Whether they speak to sarah, speak to tom, whatsoever, they should feel they're talking to the same you're gonna get the same narrative, the same narrative.
Speaker 1:It doesn't change, it doesn't change.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, I love that. So, sarah, what's next for you?
Speaker 1:oh, what's next for me? Yeah, there's so much. There's so much for me, you know, and I feel so privileged to be able to go on this journey personally, because it's definitely my calling. So, obviously, you know, real estate has birthed something in me that has made me see what money does, what wealth does, and how important it is to have wealth, because you can really live a very mundane life without that wealth. And it's also shown me the injustices that has gone on for many, many years for people of colour, people that society would describe as ethnic minorities.
Speaker 1:So for me personally, it's to build the brand, to build the Rehaboth and Stephen brand to continue to help people grow their wealth and also to preserve their wealth. But ultimately, it's for me to use that platform to be a voice for women, to encourage them to invest with Rehaboth property groups and to understand that we are very legacy driven. This is not just about us making a buck, and whilst we're not a charity, we are, are a business. We just believe that we want to be able to showcase the importance of having an asset that will go through multiple ownership and many generations as well. So it's not just for you, but it's important for you to enjoy it, but it's for the next coming generations and I feel that I'm able to demonstrate that through my own personal story.
Speaker 1:Um, my co-founder and CEO of Re, rehab or property groups on me, I think, okay, he demonstrates that so beautifully and in every single one of our buildings that you come into, you can see, you can taste it. It is there, it's in your face. So what is written on the tin is exactly who we are and I'm hoping that, through you know, collaboration, through relationships, the business that we're building personally, also for rehab off and and Stephen, that it lasts for a minimum of 250 years, because for 250 years I know how many lives that that's going to impact. And if I can get it right now, in terms of reputation, in terms of being a woman of my words, my word is my bond. I believe that that is what is going to be the lasting legacy for me as Sarah Stephen.
Speaker 2:Wow, I feel like it was almost written, but you said it so perfectly, you knew exactly, it's engraved in my heart what you see, women are controlling.
Speaker 1:Well, we can't really control 32% of the world's wealth, right? And that's growing. It's growing rapidly and, from the little research that I have done, I have looked at the profile of these women that create that, you know, control this wealth, and they don't look like us, flavilla, do not Time to change, exactly Time to change, and we talk about inclusivity, you know, et cetera, et cetera, and whilst you know, I believe that greater things should be done to make it more inclusive. I find that if we're not invited to the table, as the saying goes, then we should create our own table as well, and I believe that there's going to be a time where and now is the time actually that we have to rise to the occasion. We don't want charity, we don't want the bar to be lowered for us. We can rise to the bar, we can rise to the challenge and you know, it's demonstrated quite evidently when you allow a woman of color to see, to sit in that c-suite and demonstrate her capacity to be able to bring about money and wealth love it.
Speaker 2:I got to do. I just have nothing else to say. I just feel that you say it's good to see people who have clouted by the vision. It was like, yeah, I know exactly what I want this is.
Speaker 2:I know what I want, so be and I can't wait to see you know, continue to see your rise. You know you're doing so beautifully. So we've all listened to this podcast. This is this was definitely something that you can learn and grow from. I think this showcase the power of having clarity, knowing what you want. And when you know what you want, you get there. But if you don't know what you want, somebody's going to decide for you, and that's the power in a few beautiful demonstration of what Sarah has to accomplish.
Speaker 2:You don't have to choose between money and impact. You can do both, as long as you have clear values, values, positive values, and so you can bring to the table people you care about. You can work with partners who share the same values, and you know everybody green at the table doesn't have to be just one party, it can be all. So there's no bias, remorse. Create something that makes sense, create something that gets you excited in the morning, create something that make you smile and you look forward to every monday.
Speaker 2:This is what sarah is basically encapsulating with a, with a vision of the business she's growing and it's interesting because I remember when I went to dublin, I went to guinness. You never, if people have never been. You go on on the on the floor. The vision of the founder was a thousand years. He signed a thousand year lease. He knew that his business would be big and he didn't play it small, he played big. So this is the same vision sarah has and I'm so excited to see that. Keep on going, sarah. This is going to be brilliant in terms of connecting with sarah. We're going to leave the details in the description of this podcast and remember sarah Stephen. You can also find her on LinkedIn. Is there anywhere else? We can find you, sarah.
Speaker 1:You can find me on Instagram. I love to post.
Speaker 2:It's very inspirational, so definitely we're following you. Yeah, you can find me on.
Speaker 1:Instagram the Sarah Stephen which is great.
Speaker 2:The Sarah Stephen is the only one.
Speaker 1:And if I may add something as well, you know, I believe, that there's no there. There should be no more hiding in the shadows. We've been hiding in the shadows for too long, We've been conditioned to stay in the shadows but now I feel that we need to come out of the shadow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100%. We have to be more visible so we can inspire more and more to believe in the possible rather than the impossible For all my lovely guests. I hope that you enjoyed this podcast a session with the amazing Sarah Stephen and I always recommend to listen to it twice. I hope you do that and don't forget to share, subscribe, which is describing, but also like See you very soon. Everybody, thank you for joining us on this episode of Black Rise. We hope that you found this conversation as inspiring as we did. Share your takeaways on social media and tag us as we wrap up. Remember that you can always stay connected with us. Join us on this journey of elevation, motivation and empowerment. Let's rise together, break barriers and create lasting change. Subscribe now to stay updated with our latest episodes and visit theblackrisecom to find out more. This is Black Rise, where excellence and impact converge to redefine the future. Until next time, keep rising.