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Black Rise
Welcome to Black Rise podcast, your gateway to inspiring conversations with the crème de la crème of Black talent, leaders of 7-figure and above businesses across a spectrum of industries. Your host is Flavilla Fongang, an award-winning serial entrepreneur and she will be your guide on this journey.
Black Rise isn't just a podcast; it's an extension of the first business platform dedicated to connecting the business world to talented, skilled and experienced Black talent. Our aim is to create connections, foster collaboration, and fuel growth by bringing together Black professionals, visionary entrepreneurs, and groundbreaking businesses. We're here to bridge the networking gap, facilitating collaborative growth not only within the Black community but also far-reaching into the broader world.
In each episode, we dive deep into the stories and experiences of our remarkable guests. They share their insights, challenges, and strategies that have propelled them to the pinnacle of success. Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur, a seasoned professional, or simply hungry for knowledge and inspiration, Black Rise provides you with the tools and motivation you need to reach your own pinnacles of achievement.
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Black Rise
How To Transform Your Unique Skills into Career Assets - With Mahari Hay
From humble beginnings to leadership, Mahari's story is a testament to the power of cultural heritage, community support, and staying true to one’s roots. Listen as we discuss the impact of his cultural background and the unwavering support of his mother, which played a crucial role in his rise. Mahari's experiences, from creative design to finance, offer valuable lessons on the importance of adaptability and the strength found in a supportive network.
We also shine a light on the financial struggles faced by immigrant families and how resilience and community can overcome these challenges. Discover Mahari’s ascent from a call centre employee to a director, illustrating the significance of internal mobility and personal growth in large organisations. The episode wraps up with a powerful discussion on empowering Black communities through finance and the incredible work of the BOLD network, which supports Black professionals in achieving their dreams. Mahari’s story is an inspiring reminder of the importance of collaboration, authenticity, and continuous growth.
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So you don't want to feel that you've wasted any of your time learning a new skill, but how can I bring this on the next step of my journey, or how can I amplify this that will help me on my journey? Because I think a lot of us forget that we're sitting on such an array of different skills and talents that sometimes we feel we need to suppress those individual things in order to dial up other things. You need to put it in one big pot, cook it up, eat it use it.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Black Rise podcast, your getaway to inspiring conversation with la creme de la creme of black talent, who are leaders of seven figure and above businesses across a spectrum of industries. I'm your host, flavilla Fong-Gang, an award-winning serial entrepreneur, who will guide you on his journey. Black Rise isn't just a podcast. It's an extension of our business platform, allowing the business world to connect with skilled, talented and experienced Black talent. Our mission is to serve as a bridge, connecting businesses with vast opportunities that lie in working with Black professionals, entrepreneurs, and enterprise opportunities that lie in working with Black professionals, entrepreneurs and enterprise. We strive to showcase the value, creativity and innovation that Black talent brings to the table, fostering partnerships that drive economic growth, diversity and mutual success. Visit theblackrisecom to find out more. Hello everybody, welcome back to another episode on the black rice podcast. I hope that you've been listening and if you have not been listening, after listening to this one, go back to episode number one, go back to episode number two, go back to episode number three, and so on and so on. Every conversation is full of greatness, experiences, expertise, confidence, charisma. I mean on and on and on, and I think the reason why I love to do this is really to showcase that, no matter where you come from, you can make it if you have a drive and the desire to change your life, turn your life around, and all these individuals as the guests that I'm going to have with me today, I've been able to prove that and, at the same time, maintain your true authenticity and the reason why I have today my Harry Hay on the podcast. We met at a networking event again, the power of networking and I said you know what? You and I, we're going to be friends. If you know me personally or if you've been following me on social, you see that I don't take myself seriously, but it doesn't mean that my work is not at the top notch and he's the same type of individual that is good to be around, and I know this conversation is going to be brilliant and I just want to really just give him a bit of a praise and gratitude for him giving some of his time.
Speaker 2:But before that, let me tell you who Mari Hay is. He's a highly experienced, people-focused leader with over 20 years experience in the financial services sector. His passion for helping others and translating complex information into simple and effective content has seen him have a very rewarding career and, on top of that, what I love about him is that you know I can make it on my own, but I'm going to see how I'm going to help as well, especially now. Especially now is the current role as a director in innovation and transformation team at lloyds bank group. On top of that is also the co-chair of a very influential network called bold, but we're going to talk more about that. But, myri, such a pleasure to have you. Who are you?
Speaker 1:oh my goodness, when people read me out my name like that, I feel like even doing a dance. I don't know, but I feel powerful after that introduction. So thank you, I appreciate your time.
Speaker 2:My pleasure. There's one thing about you You're so humble, so humble. You're 20 years in the game, you know what you're doing, you have a fantastic career, you're at the top of your career and you have still so much to accomplish and know that you're very ambitious. But I love how you're still very humble.
Speaker 1:It's important because God will humble you real quick, right? So it's always to remember those who you've passed on your way up, so you can say hello to them, just in case you ever need to go back down. I think it's about being kind and remembering where you're coming from, just to know that that humble attitude and spirit is what you need to get ahead, because we all need people around us. As many times we can't do it by ourselves, and I think having a humble and kind attitude will help you along the way and I think you know it's so important.
Speaker 2:People always say, oh, how you do all these things, like, uh, I am not by myself. I just would like to remind you I'm very lucky to have a great team that I can really trust and rely on, and this is so important. If you look at all the leaders, they say that yeah, no matter where they are, we have managed to get to the top because I have a team who helped me accomplish this vision. But I feel like we should start from the beginning. Mahari, you are bold, you are confident, you are positive energy. But when I think about the young Mahari that I've never met, who was it?
Speaker 1:I think all that bold and charismatic Mahari that you've seen originates from where I'm from. So I'm first generation born in Jamaica, kingston, maxfield Avenue. So everything about me resonates from the country that I'm from. So when you think about Jamaica, you always kind of tend to associate a very charismatic and passionate individuals who often tend to want to drive and speak their mind. So you know, when people see me now they're like this boy come from jamaica and I'll go answer. I mean, I stay very close to my heritage and you should say.
Speaker 2:I think this is what sometimes people forget. They think that for me to fit in I have to lose who I am and where I come from, and I love that you're very proud of that and use that to really fuel what you bring to the business that's so important right.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and I think it's funny now you know we've both got thriving kind of platforms across social media and the last few of the interactions that I've had through the power of networking. Someone ran up to me and said you're the guy with the Jamaican flag everywhere you go, and that's it was. So it was really really refreshing to hear that people recognize me because of my cultural heritage. Right, when I speak about it and when I celebrate it, it's because I'm very proud of it. It it's because I'm very proud of it.
Speaker 1:So when I think back to me being born in jamaica, you know a mother who probably saw something in me that I didn't see with me at the time. Right, she left jamaica to come to the uk. You know she was a nurse. You know a whole part of the windrush generation and all the things that kind of came with that and how the nurses and doctors and you know just kind of people from the West Indies came to help build British society. You know to know that I had a mother like that and thought to myself you know what, I'm going to get you into the UK because I see something in you and you can go on and do great things.
Speaker 1:So that young version of Mahari was because I had a mother that trusted and believed in me right and said you know what? I don't want you to be the forgotten voice in the room, I don't want you to go without. But if I can help to get you to the next level, that I know that you can go on and help somebody else. That's what I'm going to do. So I took that and didn't really apply that right because I thought you know, know, when you have your mother or your father and they're speaking to you as young children we tend not to listen. Sometimes, right me, I had to listen just in case you did box me around the head and say, boy, you know I listen.
Speaker 2:You have to listen.
Speaker 1:If you don't listen, I'm not going to tell you twice you're not going to tell you twice, I'm not going to waste my money and bring it to the uk for you to waste my time, right, and I think you know I just wanted to do well for my family. Do you know what I mean? I think when you come from very humble beginnings, as we did, you know we didn't have much. You know I'm sure there's many people that share a very similar story, but we literally didn't have much, right, we're talking, you know, from zinc housing to in Jamaica we have what we call a tenement yard. So a tenement yard is when you have three or four different families or peoples that live in the same house, right, but just split up into different rooms.
Speaker 1:And I think when you kind of experience those things, there's a sense of togetherness and community and sharing and love. And if that's all you knew, you kind of just want to go on and probably just kind of say you know what? I know where I'm coming from, right, and I'll never forget where I'm coming from, but there must be more for me out there. And so the young mahari held on to that vision and then transitioned over into the uk and you know I'll never forget coming to the uk for the first time can you ask how old were you when you came to the uk?
Speaker 2:I?
Speaker 1:think I was probably around 11 or 12, 11 really young, you know, really young. Are you single child? So there's another story for me, though. So you know, I'm, I'm the youngest of 10, so on my dad's side, you know, my dad had you know it was a legacy surviving.
Speaker 1:I love that Legacy right and I'm very close with my brothers and sisters back in Jamaica and a lot of them are darting around the world, from America to Germany to Jamaica, to the UK. So it's really, it's just great to have a big family where I can share and bounce ideas off. So, coming to the UK, you know I've gone from wearing shorts to polo neck and jumpers, freezing cold.
Speaker 2:And you prepare mentally for it.
Speaker 1:No, I don't think so. I don't think so Because you can imagine, right, we're talking early, early, early 90s, right? So when we came right Early 90s and you're coming from a very yeah, I'd say a rough area of Kingston, right, where you're talking, technology at the time wasn't prominent. You know television, all them things. It was there, but where we're coming from we didn't really have much of those things. So I've now come to the UK and now I've seen a train go under the ground. What?
Speaker 2:I think what's new isn't it? And we forget sometimes that we normalize things for ourselves. I think that everybody has access to the same technology or the same things, and you come here that or just like the elements of just taking an escalator Seriously Daunting, right.
Speaker 1:Every single thing that you can imagine that a young mind like mine has come from. You know just kind of playing out in what we call the veranda and just run up and down and climbing tree and throwing stones at each other and enjoying, you know Jamaican heritage. And now I'm in this place where a train is going underground, double-decker buses, right, you know escalators, all these things that to somebody listening might not sound like a big deal, but you got to comprehend this young brain of mine, right, that has never experienced these things, never had the ability back in the day to go and stay in like hotels and stuff. Where I might have seen those things.
Speaker 1:It was the community where I'm from. The schooling was there, the local shops were there, my friends, my families were there. You know we had no means to go and spend weekends in hotels and all the different things. So now you're coming to the uk, it's a complete different culture shock and I was like wow. Obviously I can't take my mind back to those times, but I can definitely tell you I was blown away by the things, just kind of this fast and busy busyness of life in london. Right, things are just, and it was just a real eye-opener for me.
Speaker 2:Wow, I'm just thinking, and I was actually I wonder. Did you take this more as a fear or was it more of a playful adventure in your mind at this age?
Speaker 1:I think definitely there was a fearfulness behind it, because I've left everything I've ever known back in Jamaica and in the UK. Now it's only me and my mother, right, yes, there's this strength of a woman that will do anything for me and protect me from everything. But you're going from running up and down outside with some friends from the community to having nobody to run up and down with, right and wanting, you know, staying indoors and just things like you know, just from a safety factor. Right back home we're running up and down till late hours of the evening.
Speaker 1:You couldn't do that in London at the time because I didn't know anybody. What would a young child be doing? Running up and down outside with nobody to call a friend, right? So the difference in culture has completely changed. Because now your mother's working right and you have to stay indoors, you don't have anybody to kind of speak to. But it was a decision that my mother made to say you know what, in the long run, this is going to benefit you but do you think that you saw it at the time?
Speaker 1:sometimes you might not see but no, I didn't see it, I was. I was definitely more. I was happy to be with my mother, but I I was sad to leave behind what I knew. So it was kind of did we have to come here? Look how great it is. It's raining all the time, it's freezing cold. What is fish and chips? I've never heard of these things. I want some aki and salt fish, yam and banana.
Speaker 2:Coming from not too far away in France fish and chips, really. That concept really just for me was like why are people adding fish and chips? And on top of that I put vinegar on the chips. I was so confused by this, but you know, it's a part of a culture.
Speaker 1:Exactly. Those are things that you never knew right. So you're stepping into this new atmosphere of different things and, when your mind is really young, you're trying to comprehend all the things that are happening, the things that you were eating every day right, you still had access to that, but it's not like you could have it all the time, because some of the fruits, some of the vegetables, some of the things didn't grow in particular climates, so it's like you're finding quicker things to eat, you know, and just the simple things like cuisine was a bit of a culture shock as well at the time so what did you adapt?
Speaker 2:so was the adaptation came when you had to go to school oh, definitely.
Speaker 1:So through this conversation you can probably tell, like you know, I've always got a lot to say and I, I'm I talk with a smile on my face, right. So I'm, I'm a very happy individual because I like to embrace positivity. So when I went to school as this young boy, I had a very strong Jamaican accent, right. So I'm now in North London, tottenham. Now, tottenham is a very multicultural and diverse area, right, but back then, you know, it wasn't as multicultural as it is today. Right, but back then, you know it wasn't, as you know, multicultural as it is today. Right.
Speaker 1:But what I did have was my ability to kind of, you know, make friends and speak to some people, and you know I was small and skinny but my voice was big and broad, so I'd be like yo, how you doing what you're saying I can't imagine.
Speaker 2:I know how you look, so I can't imagine you're skinny. But try to.
Speaker 1:So if you see me now, I wish what we're going to do when we post this I'm going to. I've got a photo of me right when I first landed at Heathrow compared to now so you guys can see it would be a great kind of plug when we're pushing this out. So I think, going to school, you know it was just good to now connect with people, Right, and I think people drew towards me one for my accent and it was weird because there weren't no other Jamaicans in the school. Yes, from a cultural background. So definitely there were people who were parents from Jamaica, but they were born here. So you'd say they were what second, third generation Jamaican people, et cetera.
Speaker 1:But it was me, born in Jamaica, coming to this school with really strong accent and just trying to fit in Right. And what I realized quickly do I numb down my accent in order to fit in better or do I kind of embrace it? And I think for me I probably did take that time where I began to kind of wanted to speak more like the other children that were there, just to kind of not really feel left out. Because you know, as you're growing up, sometimes school kids can be really terrible, sometimes.
Speaker 2:Terrible, yeah, very hard.
Speaker 1:And as much as I tried to embrace it, it was good because I made friends really quickly. But a lot of the times, you know, I made friends really quickly, but a lot of the times, you know, I wanted to not really use my accent as much. So I would try and be in Jamaica what we call when a Jamaican tries to speak English. We call it speaky spokey. So I tried to use some words that was always on the playground and stuff like that and just kind of bring it to life a little bit, to fit in a bit more. But making friends was easy because I used my cultural heritage to bring people towards me.
Speaker 2:But then when I made the friends I would try to blend in by numbing down the accent a bit more wow as we come into a world that is not used to us, that continuous adaptation that we have to be in at some time, the danger of losing ourselves in the process it's hard to find that balance. So now you know we have to be at the center of the danger of losing ourselves in the process. It's hard to find that balance. So now you know we have a young Bahari who understands you, know his asset and understands his uniqueness and he can use it positively to attract but also make some new friends. So you've been doing 20 years in finance, but was it what you studied or did you study something completely different?
Speaker 1:No, you see, in my head, I was always a very creative individual. I loved telling stories or trying to simplify things right. And you know, in my early mind I thought one I don't really like taking exams and tests. Man, what subjects can I do that are going to help me to bypass these things?
Speaker 2:I love exams. I can spend hours doing exams. I'm a christian. What no way?
Speaker 1:yeah, as much as I was good, as well as I was one of those that I would study one or two days before the exam. So it's fresh in my mind and, you know, to any of our listeners out there, I don't recommend that right do not do what my heart did do not do what I did right.
Speaker 1:Take time to nurture, understand the subject and draw close to it. So it's a natural absorbment in your mind, right? Instead of trying to cram it in the night before and then hoping what you've studied is on the test.
Speaker 2:No, it doesn't work I mean look at you where, where you are, so maybe people will have amazing brain views, but most people do not.
Speaker 1:Amen, amen. You know, I think for me what I wanted to do was be able to kind of be as creative as possible, right? How can I make somebody else's life easier through the power of being able to simplify the issues that they're facing? So I studied graphic and media design and communication and early onset architecture. I think the architecture piece was all around living in a house that accommodated so many people.
Speaker 1:I wanted to always build a house for my family to call their own, so there was that nostalgic type of connection behind that. So I would work towards it. I enjoyed it, I loved it, own, you know. So there was that nostalgic type of connection behind that. So, you know, I would, you know, work towards it. You know, I enjoyed it, I loved it, and then transitioned over into graphic design. You know, loved designing computers and these wonderful things, just kind of be able to kind of bring graphics to life. And then the communication space was all about how do I interact, right? How could I tell a story via graphic design but at the same time, how could I articulate through written pieces of communication? And that's what I studied, that's what I held on to, you know, done really well at college, you know, graduated with you know distinctions through art and design, english literature, and then kind of transitioned into university.
Speaker 2:Okay. So I love how you brought the personal desires into the choices that you make as a profession. It's one thing that we have in common. I want to do architecture, but unfortunately I could not pay for the school, so I had to take a different route. So how did you find yourself between? So did you pursue the same career journey into university or you did something completely different?
Speaker 1:So I kept that whole journey behind, kind of graphics, architecture, space, but it was more about studying right and qualifying and being a qualified person in that space, right. So I've gone through university, graduated, and then I thought, okay, what do I do now? Right, how do I utilize these new skill sets that I've now studied for right? And I just kind of transitioned to lots of freelance work, you know, through graphic design. But it was mainly graphic designing which I kind of embarked into. And you know, when you're working as a contract and freelancer and you're working on these really interesting projects across different design agencies, what I found was after three or four months, and you might be on a six months contract in your fifth month, you're sweating, thinking are they going to renew it? Is there going to be a new project? And I thought to myself it becomes very, very difficult to transition, you know, into these spaces.
Speaker 1:So I'm coming out of university I've still got a saturday job, right, you know that I'm working and then, but trying to find projects that will help me to exercise the skills that I've kind of now had. You know, yeah, I think we'll probably go into and talk about it when we talk about the career that I'm in now, there was always a underlining factor of the community that I'm in and some of the things that the community were lacking Right. So that was one of the other reasons why I stepped into the career that I'm in now, which I'm sure that you will dive into in a bit more detail. But you know, the whole design space was something that I still hold true to myself to this day.
Speaker 1:It's allowed me to become a very comprehensive and detailed and engaging storyteller, right. Comprehensive and detailed and engaging storyteller, right. So I've utilized those skills, not just from a graphic sense and being able to bring it to life on a screen or through design programs, but I could visualize something in my mind and help somebody to articulate a story right from marketing campaigns to visions, to events to, you know, corporate information. It's like how can you utilize the ability of creative storytelling to have impact? And that's what I've been using.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's so interesting. I actually just finished a piece of content around that, around that idea about bringing creativity to change people's mindsets. And when I you know me when I was at university I didn't study any kind of design, I was a marketer. This is funny how you know me. When I was at university, I didn't study any kind of design, I was a marketer. This is funny how life can change.
Speaker 2:I was a marketer by trade, you know, did business and communication, but psychology was my favorite topic. Psychology and art at college were two of my favorite topics because I love the idea of artists and I would spend hours in museums just to understand. You know how paintings were put together and just understand how painting were put together. And people don't know that before social media or TV, paintings were actually a form of communication, to send message around. So a lot of church, a lot of big church, will hire painters to send a message or to influence religion and so much more. And you learn so much about how every painting and I love to study that well, you don't just look at what you see is that, whatever details and what do they mean? You know one side, you have bread. You know sitting by jesus on the other side. There's no bread, so if you want bread, yeah, exactly exactly and so on.
Speaker 2:So that's beautiful to see what you've done as well with it thank you, it's.
Speaker 1:It's really important for me, right? I don't want to have learned the skill and then put it on the shelf. I think it's how you weave that into your arsenal of skills, right, things that you've learned. You know you need to try and make sure that they become transitional, so you don't want to feel that you've wasted any of your time learning a new skill. But how can I bring this on the next step of my journey? Yes, or how can I amplify this that will help me on my journey? Because I think a lot of us forget that we're sitting on such an array of different skills and talents that sometimes we feel we need to suppress those individual things in order to dial up other things. You need to put it in one big pot, cook it up, eat it use it, cook it up.
Speaker 2:You heard it, people Cook it up. Make sure that you neutralize Translibrary skills is really what takes you further, no matter what you cook. That's what's up, Because sometimes people think, oh my gosh, I'm in this world, I will never get it. Use whatever you have right with. Killing yourself is so essential and I said people all the time. You know I spend money on this every year. It's important for me, it's important just for me to just make sure that my brain is always exercising. Absolutely it will stay relevant if you're not learning new skills. What are you doing right now? So my area I want to talk about money. You say something about finance and your desire to visit. You talk about lack. I want to transition, transition to you, moving away from freelancing to having a professional I didn't say it wasn't professional, but a career into an enterprise. How was it like? And let's address as well the element of lack that you mentioned early on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and thank you so much for allowing me to share this, because when I think about finances and I think about where I'm coming from, lack of finances is something that I've been used to my entire life.
Speaker 1:Right, we make do with what we had.
Speaker 1:At the time I didn't feel like we were going without, but there were definitely times my mother would have felt the strain, obviously, of not being able to kind of put food on the table.
Speaker 1:Or if she did put put food on the table, where did that money come from in order to cover something else? So, moving into the UK and just kind of growing up around North London, tottenham, and being around the community where I was from, especially the black community, west Indian community that was a mixture of black and Africans, and you know we were just there, you know we were enjoying life, we were doing what we can to provide for the community and our family, and the only access that black people, especially West Indians, back in the day where I was from so I can only speak from my own experience was a particular system called the partner system probably called something else in different cultures, but this is when a group of people from the same community would put money into a pot every week and one person at the end of every week will get access to the entire pot. So if my family put in 10 pounds, another family 10 pounds, at the end of the week someone would get that entire amount to do whatever they want with it, right?
Speaker 2:And then next week you do the same and the next family gets it in my country people do for a month, we do, and bigger sum as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh yeah, exactly. So you know, I was just using kind of like 10 pounds an example yeah they mean who were putting in what the draw was.
Speaker 1:so if it was an amount, you put it in. But if you think about that right for a bit, we're talking families who are working jobs, who some owned houses, some didn't own houses. The majority of them didn't own houses, might have been renting. Why couldn't they get access to finances from the high street banks? That's what I was really concerned about. So, as a child, you're probably not thinking about bills et cetera, because you're trusting that your parents are there to look after you. But what were your parents going through? Who may have been trying to start businesses, who may have wanted to invest in property, and say you know what in 20, 30 years time? I want to know that my family bought a house back in the 90s and now I can hand it down to my children.
Speaker 1:Yes, and that was the alarming thing for me. That really kind of stood out to me when it came to finances, and that's what I meant by lack of finances. So any story that I share is only based off my family and what I saw and how difficult it was at times, and a true story. I never forget why one of the key reasons why I stepped into the finance industry. You've got to imagine right, I'm coming from Jamaica, didn't have a bank account back in Jamaica, didn't know anything about finances. But my mother obviously has moved to the UK and has got familiar with some kind of minimal insight of what banking is right and what it means to have an account. So she said you know what? One Saturday we're going to go down to the high street and we're going to open a bank account for you. Right, this bank account will be yours and at least you'll have something in your name.
Speaker 2:Were you at that time.
Speaker 1:I must have been, I reckon about 13. Right? So she said you know what? We see this as an investment and this is something that you can begin to drive forward and at least have something in your name, right? So we've gone down there and because my mother was wasn't very fluent or articulate in when it came to speaking about finances, she was kind of easily dismissed.
Speaker 1:So you can imagine someone that's not from the UK stepping into a branch back in the early 90s and not knowing what to say or what to ask for in a really you know kind of way that if you step into you know unappreciated. And we didn't open a bank account that day. But what I saw on my mother's face was disappointment, I wouldn't say as much shame, but very much so disappointed that she couldn't do something for her son. And we never really spoke about it, right. But what I do remember was just the disappointment on her face of wanting to do something for her son. But because she didn't understand, it didn't happen. And I tell you what I didn't open a bank account until my first year at university.
Speaker 2:After that, oh wow, Can I tell you something? If she's still among us, I think you should talk about it.
Speaker 1:Well, God rest her soul. She passed away 11 years ago.
Speaker 2:I was about to say, I mean you can always speak, you know, in prayers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely, and you know, I had those same conversations with, you know, with my children, my missus, et cetera, because I think now we need to talk about it, because we need to be better at it. And you know, when you ask better questions, you get better answers. But if you don't know the questions you're asking, it becomes difficult.
Speaker 2:As we continue this engaging conversation, remember that Black Rise is more than just a podcast. We're a dynamic platform where businesses can connect, collaborate and prosper with Black professionals, entrepreneurs and Black-owned companies. Our commitment to diversity, inclusion and empowerment reshapes industries and builds a future where Black excellence thrives globally. So don't forget to subscribe and give us a five-star review on iTunes. Yes, you know and I think people often don't realize the importance of questions you need to ask better questions. So if you want better outcomes, sometimes just asking the wrong questions won't give you the answers that you actually need. And what you say is so important because I'm something like you. I'm in this mission to really grow the black capital. The disparity we know it's 20% of people who own property in the black community. This is not normal when you have 78% in the Asian community, 64% in the white community. Numbers don't add up. You know you have people. What is the reason? Make it make sense.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, Absolutely, and we need to be better at it. So I use that as a driver to kind of say you know what? If I ever had to switch professions, I would step into finance, because I might not have the answer for you, but I want to be the connector that helps you, put you in the right direction. So if you wanted a conversation about mortgages oh yes, I know so-and-so over in this department go and speak to them. If you want to talk about investments oh yeah, I know this person. I wanted to help the black community connect the dots when it came to speaking about finances. I wanted them to become more comfortable to speaking about finances and not just the pardon scheme so how did that transition happen?
Speaker 1:now you get that awakening, you went to university well, one of the real life awakenings was when you realize you're working as a contractor and you're doing these things, and then the council text and the gas man start knocking on the door saying, hey, we never get the money this month.
Speaker 2:So then I thought to myself I need to change this quick.
Speaker 1:And I thought to myself you know what, let me have a look. And I never forget this is I'm showing my age. Now I saw an advert for a job in a call center in the back of a newspaper true story, and I saw it in the newspaper and so I called the number and they wanted me to come to like. It was kind of like a recruitment office, like you know, it's like an old school type of read vibe, but they wanted to obviously interview you first before they sent you onto the company. Because all it said was you know, a finance firm looking for call center agents paying commission on sales. So I said, okay, cool, no problem.
Speaker 1:So I've made my way to this recruitment office and nowhere to rely. As I've walked in I've seen there's this long line for villa, like literally probably about 10 people, and I'm thinking, oh, my goodness, this is a real prominent firm. But it kind of went up the stairs and then someone said to me oh, this isn't the line for the recruitment office, just keep going straight up. So I've walked past them, gone into this room and there's a curtain that separates this room. On one side there's a guy in front of the computer. Another guy turned. There's a guy in front of the computer. Another guy turned to facing the wall in front of the computer and on the other side. You never guess what was on the other side. I'll tell you how you're misery. A witch doctor. A what doctor? A witch doctor? Somebody practicing voodoo.
Speaker 2:You're lying.
Speaker 1:You're lying, I'm telling you. The line that I thought was for the recruitment center was the line for the witch doctor. So I walked up the stairs and I've gone in and I said, oh, is this the advert for the? And then the guy, like just a normal random white guy, sat there in a shirt and tie and he goes yeah, come on, have a seat. And then I said you're sharing a room. And he goes oh yeah, not too loud, not too loud. And I was like what do you mean? And you can hear, like people talking on the other side. I'm not joking, it was a curtain, I'm not joking, a curtain that separated this room. So I've kind of thinking, oh jesus, please help me, protect me now, please lord they're gonna take my blood.
Speaker 2:Oh my god, in my head I'm like lord protect me.
Speaker 1:I could not get out of there quick enough and all. They gave me a quick interview and then he went could you make it up to these offices? You know, later this afternoon, well, they'll interview you. And I said yeah, no problem. And I left from there and I traveled all the way up to um cop fosters, north london, and where I had an interview for the organization which I'm in today and I was hired on the spot. So at the end of the interview they loved my ability to kind of just communicate and speak and I said you know, I don't know much about finance, but what I do know is I can communicate and I can sell Right.
Speaker 1:And then that was my inroad into the organization I'm in now. So now I'm a fully fledged, full-term employee working a call center, talking about, you know, literally if you called up now it's like oh yeah, I've lost my bank card. You know that type of vibe you know now to fill out data entry. And now I'm in the finance sector, regardless of what level I'm in entry-level role. I work for the organization, which is currently the number one UK retail bank. But at the time I didn't know anything about that. All I knew was. I was working for a banking institute and I was working there Monday to Friday, nine to five, and I had the ability to now earn a steady income in a very reputable organization. So let me pause there. So that's where I'm at now.
Speaker 2:This is amazing. So from call center to director, I can't wait to hear about the journey. But at the same time, what you're saying is so important. People look sometimes at companies but they not necessarily understand the opportunities of that entry because you are just looking for a job. But when you change your mindset to I'm looking for now to build my career, you need to understand the potential of what company you work for and if sometimes you outgrow your company's potential, maybe this is not the right place to be. If this company has a massive potential, it means a massive amount of opportunities for you, right, and that's one thing that's interesting.
Speaker 2:I'm hearing about your stories that the beginning was very much. I need to change. Whatever I can get right now and I know my strength, I'm going to go for what much? My strengths and my skills, I know what to say and obviously you sold them very well because they took you on the spot. Then now you got some level of security and sometimes people don't get out of that level of I'm just have my job for security to now have security. I want to step, take a step further and get growth absolutely and I think you have to open your eyes and what?
Speaker 1:what I transitioned from was okay, I'm good at this job, but do I want to be answering the phones for the rest of my life? So I did it for probably about 12 months, 18 months, just so I could get an understanding of what finance meant, the types of terminology that you're speaking about, because obviously they would have to train you and you went on training courses, what you have to say, scripts, etc. But I'm sitting in a call center on the outskirts of north london not knowing that a few clicks away on the internal internet, there were jobs associated to this powerhouse of a financial organization. But because I was happily earning a wage right, because I was hitting bonus all the time, because I was good at selling, didn't know that behind a couple of clicks were opportunities in areas like marketing, risk analysis, asset finance, investment management, all these different types of roles, roles that I never, ever studied. But you're already in the organization, which means my foot is in the door. So anything that you wanted to do, you can do.
Speaker 1:And then I began to think you know what? Let's have a look. And I clicked on the internal job shop one day and just looked at roles that were you know anything to kind of do with anything really. But I just wanted to come out of the call center and really sharpen my financial acumen and the first role out of the call center was a risk analyst job. I don't know nothing about risk even the title is already scary oh, my goodness, I was so scared.
Speaker 1:But I believed in my ability to translate complex information, because when you think of risk, it's about analyzing risk and how do we avoid that risk? Right, and so when I applied for the job, it was a gentleman and I just kind of walked up, because it was based in the same building I was in at the time, and the gentleman that I kind of you know met. I said you know, the jobs mentioned that you sat on this floor. So I thought let me come down and have a conversation with you. You know, I've worked in the call center on the seventh floor for the last year and a half, but I've picked up some great skills and this is what I'd want to do and I'd like to progress my career. And the first thing he said to me was let's do a test. I said lord god, please, not no test. How's this man gonna test me on risk analysis? One familiar. I've told you I hate tests, right, I know. But what he wanted to assess was how I would go about solving a problem. So I immediately said to him I said okay, no problem, I can tell you a story. So he sat me down, you know, a couple of days later and he said we'll do it as a formal type of interview, we'll do the test. And then, so we've done the test right. And then I had the interview and great.
Speaker 1:And so he kind of come back and he goes. Oh, I had to look at the thing. And then he said to me no one has ever put together the information like this. And he said obviously there are some things there that aren't correct. But what I've realized is I've already got 10 analysts. I don't have anybody that can translate the information as well as you did.
Speaker 1:And I said oh, he goes. I can tell these people to pull together a report for me and they'll do it in an instant. I can tell these people to pull together a report for me and they'll do it in an instant. But if I ask them to go and communicate it to myself or my manager, they would struggle. He goes, I can easily tell.
Speaker 1:If I tell you to translate this information, I can put you in front of particular leaders and you'd have no problem explaining yourself. And I said that's what I'm talking about. So what are you saying? I swear that's what I said. I said that's what I'm talking about. So what are you saying? I swear that's what I said. I said that's what I'm talking about. So how much do I get? And then, from that day I took that job and what I did was all I would do. I would sit with the teams pulling together the information and then I would translate that information from a 30, 40 deck into two, three key slides. That just to communicate what the team has delivered wow and they love.
Speaker 2:That's definitely a skill, wow right.
Speaker 1:So now I've gone from translating complex information to storytelling. Yes, it was the infancy of my financial career, but what I realized was the power of managing stakeholders, and being able to communicate effectively was what I needed in order to navigate a very fruitful career and then pick up skills, and I'm now utilizing skills from working on Photoshop, illustrator, to now translate information in order to tell a story. And I've utilized those skill sets across so many different areas of the bank, working in so many different key, important areas of the bank, to now be becoming a director. And I think the ability to have transitional skills and to be open to continually learning and developing and sharpening your skills are things that we should embrace and never suppress.
Speaker 2:Embrace, embrace absolutely. The journey of life, of school never stops and if you want to keep on developing yourself, I agree with you. Learning is part of the element. You need to tell us. Break down a little bit in terms of the director level. How did that happen? Can you break it down in terms of who who was part of?
Speaker 2:Because I think what's interesting, what you say is that often we're not necessarily able to recognize our strength. Somebody else can translate that into a role. As it happened. You know, you knew that's what happens. A lot of people are very talented but they don't know how to use what they have, so they don't put themselves forward. And you know you are, you were, I can say you didn't wait to be served, so you know you are proactive into it and at the same time you were speaking in front of the people were able to find that talent in you and say, huh, wait a minute, you'd be good for that. So when I think about your journey to being a director, is there something that you are aspired for, or someone saying maybe you're not ready to take this job?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's such a powerful question, yo, me a, the big man. You know, flavilla. Yo, let me tell you so when I think about this journey. When I joined the organization, I looked up the ladder and there were no black directors, were no black leaders thriving, right, how do I bridge that gap? I know how difficult it was for me to climb the ladder without help, right, and sometimes what makes it easier is if you look up, or even if you see, look to the left, look to the right, you see people around you that look like you. You can lean on them, you can ask them what did you do to get to the next level? That was my determination and my purpose, because I found out it was very difficult to climb the ladder.
Speaker 1:So I've been in the organization or the finance sector 19, 20 years, right, the transition to where I am now would have happened a lot sooner if I was having these types of conversations earlier in my career. So my journey now is all about when I get to a level of influence which I'm at now. How do I utilize this platform to somebody right who looks like me, who may just be starting out or maybe in the infancy of their career to help them get to that next level faster not by cutting corners, but giving them key insight into the areas that they should be focusing on in order to attain their goals quicker. Right, and that's what was the drive for me, and you'd also remember I mentioned the ability to be kind and be humble. Right, builds a spirit of trust amongst your stakeholders, because they trust and know that this is a person that can deliver for me. They trust and understand that this is a person that is determined in order to help other people prosper and be great. So, being able to manage stakeholders and being able to communicate effectively are some of the key things that got me to director level, because when you're at this level, it's no longer just about results, it's about people as well.
Speaker 1:Right, you need to be an effective leader because you could be great at delivering, but if people don't want to work for you or people don't want to be around you, you're not the right person for many organizations in this world now, because the culture of organizations run very closely with the deliverables Right, this is why we're so focused in on what do we need to do to develop and support the people in the organization so they can be high performers, absolutely high performers, and through the journey, probably of my last five years, I've made sure, when it comes to communicating and engaging with people, it's at the top right.
Speaker 1:It's one of those things where, if you can communicate effectively and articulate your ideas and visions and deliverables, to know that I am the right person to help you deliver this project, because of X and this is what it means for you People buy into that immediately, because there's an authenticity behind you, who you are as an individual and I would say, getting to directorship, my last, probably two or three roles were through recommendations, not through me applying for roles, but through, do you know, mahari, oh, oh, my goodness, if you work with this guy, he would be able to help you do this, and it was through those recommendations, from my ability to be humble, my ability to be kind, but also to my ability to build a aura of trust, knowing that if you entitle me or you give me something to deliver, I will get it done for you.
Speaker 1:Yes, and I think that's what people work off the relationship, so one through your networking is great, cool. People understand who you are and understand how you can help them deliver, and that's what the journey to directorship has taken. You've built up a history of delivering, but can this person be an effective leader at this level?
Speaker 2:And I'd like to say that I am, because I get lots of good engagement through people, through conversations, through networking pieces, and it's just been really, really helpful for me to help other people, because people trust you to communicate and engage with them yeah, I remember I will tell you a story as well, like when I launched, before I launched, dj black woman Tech, I thought that I maybe have a few people and I realized, my God, it was thousands and thousands of black women wanted to be part of that. But I came across women which are people who have, you know, put into my head that they were at the beginning of their career. But I found women who were very talented, new position but I've never broke the glass ceiling. Some of them have, and they're fantastic. And I realized that what was not missing is not always. Yeah, we need to get more people into technology.
Speaker 2:Yes, we do, but quite often is the soft skills that people don't necessarily realize and what you explain is so important. The journey to success, the journey to achieving get to the top is a chess game and you need to understand how to put all the journey to achieving. You know, get to the top is a chess game and you need to understand how to put all the pieces together. You don't just tap into your skills, as you say yourself. You have to understand how to have great communication with other set of soft skills that you bring into it. You know analytical and so on and so on. But again, what you talked about is what our sponsors, people who talk about you when you're not in the room is so powerful. Yes, how?
Speaker 2:do you get it? Is it like somebody mentioned me to somebody else? Your track record and your ability to be a reliable person, as you say yourself, it's so key. I think if people go into anything that they undertake with the mindset of I want, whether it's me or not, I'm dealing with a hundred percent of myself, even 200% of what I can achieve, so I'm proud of it. People will always remember that. People don't remember what you say. Remember what you do. Remember that.
Speaker 2:Maya Angelou said that all the time, people remember what, not what you say. Remember what you do. What are you doing today that lets you imprint on people, and I think you've been able to do that. And with that I think what I think. I know I would love working with you if I was not in, if I was in my own business, but I can tell how you bring that joy around. You carry that joy with you. Yes, it's work, but at the same time, it doesn't have to be painful with whatever you want to achieve, and that's such an important part of your character.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I think it's so important because the people element behind anything you do is so important. You know too many times, as black people, we want to achieve success by ourselves. We are stronger together. By coming together and being together, we would be even more excellent than we actually are. Yes, so I realized sooner rather than later, I can't do this alone.
Speaker 2:You can't. It's impossible, it's impossible, it's impossible. Do you know? I'll tell you a story. It even happened yesterday it doesn't matter what before I listened to the podcast, but I was waiting for Uber. I don't have energy today to just be going around. There was all public transport disruption and I go in and this young black guy was by the security and we start chatting and I give him some tips. I read the psychology of money and he's very ambitious. He's probably in his 20s or something like that. But the fact that he was so young and he was able to pick it up is that sometimes we can be our biggest hurdle.
Speaker 2:We want to be the one to be perceived as the one to save everybody, instead of say how can we bring everybody to the table? And together we can achieve that. And I think that individualism would not take us far if we act as a community. And for that and this is why I love Black Lives Matter that you are people doing things together brought us together, help us understand that you can use all the assets, all the people in the same who have the same vision, to come together to do something that will really, truly make an impact. But nobody ever achieves success on their own. You have to collaborate, you have to be able to have people who support you, you have to have a great team, and so on and so on. So when I look at your journey, I'm just in awe of it.
Speaker 2:But what you describe it, what you have very strong maharry, is likability factor, because I said to people like if you're not beautiful and if you know, if you don't have a white privilege, be a likable person. Yes, likeability will take you very far absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 1:I think I have that likeability and link your likeability to authenticity. You need to be authentic because people smell bs and can see bs and my love. If you're preaching one thing but also displaying another thing across your platforms, people call you out on it. But if you're always advocating for positivity and genuineness, humble spirit, but still that ability and drive and determination to get things done, you know, don't get it confused. You are able to deliver right, because at the end of the day, I'm collaborating with you or working with you or bringing into my organization in order to drive and grow the organization to whatever it may be right. You need to be able to demonstrate that. But be likable. Right. And if you can research it or build on your personal brand or find out things or engage through networking or connect with people who can assist you to grow that part of your own growth, dive into it dive into it.
Speaker 2:Can we talk about bold black organization for Organization for Leadership and Development and what you're doing with it, and also as a last part of this podcast. I can speak to you for two hours but really in terms of what is important to you right now, any interesting projects you're working on, that people should be aware of what's in the pipeline, if you're allowed to share as well well, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1:So.
Speaker 1:When I think about bold right like again, I link it back to when I looked at the ladder there was nobody that looked like me, right as a black man in the corporate space, in the finance sector. How do I get to the heights where I can help and, you know, really drive some other people's aspirations to help them to where they need to get to? So Bold Black Organization for Leadership and Development is a very impactful and powerful ERG ERG being Employee Resource Group. So within the organization that I'm in, we look after and create a safe space for Black people in order to thrive and prosper and really kind of look after their mental health and well-being, but also really drill down into what they need to do to connect with other black colleagues and also think about how they can grow their career aspirations. So the bold networks helps them to connect those dots, help them with cv writing, interview skills, networking opportunities. Um, you know, think about the things that they're working on, not just from an internal aspect, you know, because we have entrepreneurs, I found out, and then you have entrepreneurs. So entrepreneurs is obviously you know people that might have side ventures, so you're working for the organization. But again, you have a passion or a drive for something that you want to deliver, we help you connect those dots with the right people, have the right conversations, but we don't want you to suppress your dreams. It's about allowing you to be the true, authentic, amazing, individual black person that you are within this organization, and what we want to do is make sure that you can continue to be that person, but in a safe space.
Speaker 1:Yes, the bold is about all of that, and we've had lots of great things, you know, delivered. But one of the key things that came out of our survey at the back in the last year was how do we touch the nation right? So we're very prominent in london. We do lots of great things in london and, as you, of great things in london and, as you know, the organization stretches not just from the south but all the way up to the north. So what we've done and the key things for this year is about launching bold regional hubs. So people in your birmingham, people in your manchester's, your reddenburg's, your cardiff you know all across this country have a specific, dedicated, bold hub that they can go to and get involved with activities that they can go to and get involved with activities that they've seen happening in London.
Speaker 1:So what it does? It creates a huge network of powerful, not just black colleagues but also allies and advocates that believe that it shouldn't be up to black people alone to solve the issues that we're facing, but if people come together, like I I said, we are stronger together to help us deliver on these aspirations. So bold is currently doing that and I'm very proud to kind of be the co-chair to help driving that forward, because there's lots of things that we're continually working on and celebrating different awareness days. We're currently working on a very powerful event linked to windrush day which kind of celebrates all those wonderful individuals that came to this country to set really the market down. You know they walked so we could run and we want to celebrate and recognize them for the greatness that they delivered so that many people from our generation can go on and do great things and then people our children can go on and do great things, because without them setting the foundation, it would have been impossible.
Speaker 2:I love that they walk so we can run. I'm going to keep that one. It's a nice one. Sometimes I take quotes from my people. It's like I heard this one, my Harry, so I'm going to use it. They're really good. I have a question People who are external to the ERG, who are not part of the company, can they get involved with what you're doing?
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, because we want to do things that collaborate and connect with people, because sometimes people might decide, you know what, if that organization looks like an organization that supports the black community, celebrates the black community, it makes it an easier transition to know that the culture fit for them is right, yeah, right. So whenever we do events, people can follow me on linkedin, instagram and see the different things that are happening. You know you can reach out to me for the latest event that might be coming down the line. You know I can invite you. I think that's all we need to do. So, you know, I would probably say your first point of contact from an external perspective to be involved is contact me Because, like I said me, I'm the big man, me in charge. You know Me.
Speaker 2:I run it. You know Me too. Who is in charge. It's Maya who is in charge. It's Maya who's in charge. I love it. You've been such a great guest. Honestly, I need to do another session.
Speaker 1:I feel like we should do another session you know we're working on some things, so we'll have a specific dedicated call maybe on that one, because I want to obviously celebrate the collaboration that we're working on and let's bring it to life on how we do that yes, mary.
Speaker 2:hey, it's been a delight, a pleasure to listen to your fantastic story, and I feel that you have you're still at the beginning of an amazing career, but boy, what a journey, what a what a journey of joy. You know, one thing I love about it is you've managed to make struggles still fun and and enjoyable, and I think if people have the same level of positivity in the way they carry themselves, they will be as blessed as you are, and that's something that I'm happy that you know. Our paths just crossed and I know that we'll never lose each other anymore.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, thank you so much, Larry, You're welcome. Thank you everybody. Listen. Run up the episode, I fear things are going.
Speaker 2:I was literally about to say that, but I guess he's already said it. As you say, you've heard it from Mahari this episode you won't listen to it twice. In any case, even if you feel a bit low today, just give the joy of Mahari's crazy laughter and Mahari's joy around it and give, put you in the right mood and get you excited, be positive about your future. Mary was a pleasure to have you. And to all my listeners, remember, listen twice, three times, and don't forget to subscribe and obviously also follow. Bye everybody.
Speaker 2:Thank you for joining us on this episode of black rise. We hope that you found this conversation as inspiring as we did. Share your takeaways on social media and tag us as we wrap up. Remember that you found this conversation as inspiring as we did. Share your takeaways on social media and tag us as we wrap up. Remember that you can always stay connected with us. Join us on this journey of elevation, motivation and empowerment. Let's rise together, break barriers and create lasting change. Subscribe now to stay updated with our latest episodes and visit theblackrisecom to find out more. This is Black Rise, where excellence and impact converge to redefine the future. Until next time, keep rising.